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Old 01-12-2004, 10:07 PM   #26
Adrian Smith
 
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Quote:
Sean Toner (SeanToner) wrote:
In Japanese, all the vowels are pronounced thusly:

A as in aww (rhymes with law)
Sean, from my vantage point (living in Japan for a year now, surrounded by native speakers) this isn't quite right. The 'A' vowel sound is pronounced 'ah', not 'aww' and it doesn't rhyme with 'law'. It's more like the 'a' in 'arch' unless my ear is deceiving me.

-Adrian
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Old 01-12-2004, 10:37 PM   #27
WilliamWessel
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Quote:
Rich Marsh (richmarsh) wrote:
I know the post is off topic, but Jun in all your posts it says I do not do aikido. Who are these folks and why are the visiting a forum dedicated to aikido? Just very curious
I don't *yet*. Been putting it off for a year or so for various stupid reasons ranging from anxiety about it to time (currently). Once I get more settled in with college I plan on making some time to visit the dojos in my area and starting.
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Old 01-13-2004, 07:35 AM   #28
erikmenzel
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Re: Re: Hakama for non-yudansha

Quote:
Hanna Bj÷rk (Hanna B) wrote:
Hakama or no hakama, it is really not important. As with all unimportant things, it is better to follow the general pattern instead of making a big fuss.
Ooooh, that is so nice. I agree fully. I agree so inmensly that we now should all go to our dojo and train very hard to celebrate

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
Personal:www.kuipers-menzel.com
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Old 01-14-2004, 04:21 PM   #29
SeanToner
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Adrian Smith

Yeah, your right now that I think of it. I was trying to phoneticize and it seemed right at the time to say 'aw' instead of 'ah', but 'ah' does capture the sound better.

Of course the best thing is to just listen to some native Japanese speakers
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Old 01-23-2004, 08:02 PM   #30
p00kiethebear
 
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This was actually something I had to adjust too when i started training in aikido. I had been training in Battodo for about a year and had been wearing a hakama since he begining. When i started into aikido, i felt naked without it! However as my ukemi got better sensei didn't have such a problem with me "keeping my pants on"

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
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Old 01-24-2004, 09:30 PM   #31
MaryKaye
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My dojo follows its parent tradition in having hakama only for dan ranks and instructors. About half of them swear by the hakama for its grace and beauty; the other half swear at it, for tangling up and hiding the feet, and will take it off as soon as they have an excuse. I don't think it's a big status symbol as a result.

I was a guest at a dojo where everyone above a fairly early kyu rank wore hakama. That worked too. There was one tiny girl, maybe ten years old, who was etherially beautiful in her hakama. It did make the higher-ranked kids stand out from the others, which helped counteract my tendency to assume that bigger==better. They dealt with the cost issue by having dojo hand-me-down hakama for the kids.

I'm a bit glad not to have to pay for one or learn how to fold it (or roll in it) quite yet, myself. I don't think my dojo would make an issue over a guest who wore hakama, though people probably would tend to assume s/he was dan rank until told otherwise. (My first day at the other dojo I was quite intimidated by what looked to me like a sea of yudansha!)

Mary Kaye
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Old 01-31-2004, 03:25 PM   #32
Anders Bjonback
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Personally, I am really glad that I have been able to wear hakama since my sixth kyu test. I like everyone being able to wear hakama, rather than just blackbelts. I feel like it's more inclusive, like it's a symbol of wanting to be a part of this tradition or lineage or whatever, rather than a sign of rank.

I also think hakama are awesome. I can't wait until I have enough money so I can get a kimono and hakama for tea ceremony.

I'm also glad that I have been able to start wearing a hakama in my early stages of training in ukemi. I know from the start not to get up from a front roll in a way that would possbily make me trip in my hakama. Since I started wrearing one from near the beginning, it wouldn't be nearly so much as a switch as, say, waiting four to six years. I won't have to worry about getting hurt by a sudden switch in garment after testing for shodan.

I've only done aikido for a year and a half, so to me it's still pretty obvious who is better than me or knows what he or she is doing, and who is a beginner. And my teachniques don't work that well anyway, so since I'm not likely to affect a beginner's center, I'm not very likely to do anything that could really hurt him or her (other than being too agressive with joint locks). Maybe it changes as you get more advanced and so need to know how good the other person is before you can really practice with him or her. I haven't heard of any problems like this at my dojo, though.

"For peace and happiness are presences, not objects we can grasp and hold onto."
--Lilian Smith
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Old 01-31-2004, 04:02 PM   #33
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I can certainly identify with the dark blue hakama for modesty reasons. Women in my dojo wear from blue belt onwards. The first time one of my best friends wore her (too long) hakama, there was a ripping sound during one of the moves. Fortunately it wasn't her brand new hakama but her gi trousers underneath and the hakama covered everything. Naturally once we'd figured out no serious damage to her or her modesty, the rest of us girls were, "waah, so sexy, a rip here. a rip there, matches your ripped jeans.", "eh, new fashion statement?" etc
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Old 02-01-2004, 05:46 AM   #34
Nick Simpson
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I have heard of dan grades confusing a low ranked kyu grade in hakama for a dan grade and therefore going fell for leather with them when the uke couldnt cope.

But then again Ive trained with visiting dan grades from other organisations who didnt ask my kyu rank and just proceeded to batter me senseless anyway, so I guess its all immaterial.

In any case it seems strange to me to train for several years without hakama, get to shodan and then have to learn how to take ukemi, walk around and do technique without tripping or injuring yourself. Maybe its an initiation joke? "Hes a black belt now, he thinks hes great. Lets make him wear this stupid skirt!".

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 02-01-2004, 11:43 AM   #35
Nacho_mx
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Quote:
Nick Simpson wrote:
I have heard of dan grades confusing a low ranked kyu grade in hakama for a dan grade and therefore going fell for leather with them when the uke couldnt cope.

But then again Ive trained with visiting dan grades from other organisations who didnt ask my kyu rank and just proceeded to batter me senseless anyway, so I guess its all immaterial.

In any case it seems strange to me to train for several years without hakama, get to shodan and then have to learn how to take ukemi, walk around and do technique without tripping or injuring yourself. Maybe its an initiation joke? "Hes a black belt now, he thinks hes great. Lets make him wear this stupid skirt!".
If you get your basics right (ukemi, taisabaki, footwork) the transition should not be a problem. The only hakama related awkwardness that I encountered was when I asked myself "Great, now how do I tie this thing?" and later "How do I fold this thing?
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Old 02-01-2004, 07:37 PM   #36
ikkitosennomusha
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Actually, Saito-shihan once said that O-sensei made him wear a hakama upon the first day of traning. Saito-shihan was too poor to purchase one so he tore the fabric off an old couch, had it sewn into the hakama and dyed it black. He went on to say that the dye came off on the dojo mats!

Since when did the hakama, which is nothing more than apprpriate attire for the Japanese male way back when, become a symbol of presitge and inclusioin??? Who is the one who sai "only black belt can wear this"? Its like someone telling me that I cannot wear my pants!!!

The first 4 years of my training was with the AAA. They do not allow anyone under shodan to waer the hakama. It has its pros and cons.

Brad Medling
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:51 AM   #37
Hanna B
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If you do a little search (here on Aikiweb forums or the web), you'll find that the damand for everyone to wear a hakama was skipped during WW2 because it was difficult for all students to obtain one. Alas, mudansha was freed from the hakama obligatory while yudansha was not.
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Old 02-02-2004, 07:34 AM   #38
indomaresa
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Quote:
Nick Simpson wrote:
In any case it seems strange to me to train for several years without hakama, get to shodan and then have to learn how to take ukemi, walk around and do technique without tripping or injuring yourself. Maybe its an initiation joke? "Hes a black belt now, he thinks hes great. Lets make him wear this stupid skirt!".
I agree totally

that black gown is nothing but trouble

The road is long...
The path is steep...
So hire a guide to show you the shortcuts
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Old 02-03-2004, 05:58 PM   #39
stuartjvnorton
 
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Quote:
Nick Simpson wrote:
I have heard of dan grades confusing a low ranked kyu grade in hakama for a dan grade and therefore going fell for leather with them when the uke couldnt cope.

But then again Ive trained with visiting dan grades from other organisations who didnt ask my kyu rank and just proceeded to batter me senseless anyway, so I guess its all immaterial.
As a Yoshinkan student, most of us rarely wear hakama.

At my original dojo, Sensei only wore hakama at gradings and at demo's and yudansha only wore them at demos in certain circumstances.

At my current dojo, instructors also wear them when they are taking a class.

Surely any dan grade should have a rough idea of someone else's quality of Aikido just by watching them train for a minute or 2 or training with them for a couple of techniques, regardless of what they were wearing.

If uke can't cope then surely shite has a duty to tone it down a bit, to stretch uke without breaking them.

Cheers,

Stuart.
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Old 02-03-2004, 06:20 PM   #40
Nick P.
 
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Stuart,

I agree with you 110%, and even offered that opinion in another thread dealing with hakama or belts at seminars (as in if the dojo you are visiting wears a hakama at sankyu and above but you normally don't, etc).

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Old 04-11-2005, 06:30 PM   #41
samurai_kenshin
 
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Re: Hakama for non-yudansha

to me wearing ahakama is irrelevant to the training. Be that as it may, I do wish i could wear one, just because they look cool. BTW i'm a 5th kyu and sensei only allows yudansha to wear hakama (that doesn't mean i can't wear one at home!!!).

Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.
-Barry LePatner
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Old 04-12-2005, 12:21 AM   #42
Simone
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Re: Hakama for non-yudansha

Hi all,

I also train in a dojo that follows its parent tradition in having hakama only for dan ranks. I don't question this because as a student I'm not in a position to do.

Once in a dan seminar I forgot to bring my hakama. So there were 20 yudansha with hakama and me (the only one in underwear). that was kind of embarrasing.

Anyway, I've trained in a dojo where nobody wears one, so I didn't wear mine (and felt "naked" without my "parachute"). But, as mentioned before, when in Rome....

On the other hand sometimes some kyugrades with hakama participate at our seminars, that's fine. I just look at the colour of their belt, just to make shure I don't overdo it at the first technique. But some people seem to know ways of tieing their hakama so you can't see the belt at all.....

I don't see any reasons why women should wear it from an earlier rank on out of modesty reasons. That's strange to me. Where I train all rules are the same formen and women.

I personally are not concerned about hakama and rank, but I know others who are.

Simone
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Old 04-12-2005, 02:52 AM   #43
maikerus
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Re: Hakama for non-yudansha

Personally,

I hate the d*mn things. The only time I wear one is when I am explicitly told to and then I try my best to get out of it.

But maybe I'm missing something...nahhh

--Michael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 04-12-2005, 04:40 AM   #44
Chuck.Gordon
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Re: Hakama for non-yudansha

Quote:
Rich Marsh wrote:
I know the post is off topic, but Jun in all your posts it says I do not do aikido. Who are these folks and why are the visiting a forum dedicated to aikido? Just very curious
As for me, the reasons are several:

I have many dear friends who DO practice aikido (and I train with them when I can -- Heya Jun!); my wife earned shodan rank in aikido some years back; my teacher had opportunity many years past, to spend some time with folks like Shioda as well as Tohei, and he was impressed enough with what they shared that it has influenced our jujutsu. And finally, the political and spiritual wrangles of aikido are simply endlessly fascinating ...

As for hakama, I've gone boths ways over the years, but nowadays, wear hakama for weapons work almost all the time, and rarely for empty-hand (unless in a demo or the rare formal class).

Chuck

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Old 04-12-2005, 11:20 AM   #45
bryce_montgomery
 
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Re: Hakama for non-yudansha

About a month ago my instructor told me to write an article about the hakama, mainly from Saotome Shihan's book The Principles of Aikido so I did.

My personal beliefs on mudansha wearing hakamas is in this article and a reasoning for allowing mudansha to wear the hakama.

Bryce
Attached Files
File Type: txt The Significance of Hakama.txt (7.9 KB, 77 views)
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Old 04-12-2005, 04:06 PM   #46
the slayer
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Re: Hakama for non-yudansha

hi, in the dojo that i'm at women can't where the hakama until they pass there 1st grading which in our dojo is 6th kyu but women can have them as soon as they pass the first grading for modesty as the gi used to be underwear.but the males don't where them till shodan but if you notice the women who where hakama they have their belt showing so we know who is who as in the dojo there is only 2 belts white and black except for the juniors.and you can notice the women beginners more as they haven't got the hakama on
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Old 04-13-2005, 08:19 PM   #47
Qatana
 
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Re: Hakama for non-yudansha

Modesty? What does a hakama cover that gi pants don't?
I love how aikido looks when done in a hakama, as a dancer I covet being able to look like that as I fly.However I also agree that one's ukemi should be good and solid, and their technique good enough that sensei doesn't have to see your knees all the time, which I imagine I will achieve sometime after reaching shodan.
I also am of the "visible colored belt"school, it helps to gauge one's response when training with unfamiliar partners.
Anyway my dojo waits till shodan but I'm sure that sensei would not object to me wearing one if I visited an ASU dojo, or other where it would be permitted for a mid-kyu to wear one. And if I ever get my Aaiki-Tango workshop off the ground and onto the mat, I intend to wear hakama as I will be the Teacher and I bloody well am going to Look like one!

Q
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"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 04-14-2005, 02:57 AM   #48
Michael Holm
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Re: Hakama for non-yudansha

Quote:
Jo Adell wrote:
And if I ever get my Aaiki-Tango workshop off the ground and onto the mat, I intend to wear hakama as I will be the Teacher and I bloody well am going to Look like one!
There will be a combined Aikido and Tango class in Copenhagen, Denmark next Saturday
If anyone is near, mail me and I will send you invitation - me and my 4 feets are not going

Aikido without Hakama, what will be next Matrix without leather jackets ??

But beside the famous quote "when in Rome, do.." the best reason is that the hakama looks and gives a cool feeling - except when you are tripping in it

BTW Ki Aikido Dojo in Denmark normally uses hakama from 2. kyu - I tell my students that they should be aware when training at seminars, other people will be more inclined to think a hakama-person will be able to take care of himself when doing ukemi - so I secretly hope the student will train more to live up to the hakama

Last edited by Michael Holm : 04-14-2005 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 04-15-2005, 08:04 PM   #49
Rodurigo
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Re: Hakama for non-yudansha

I'm not a very experienced aikidoka, nor english speaker for that mather. so forgive me if i dont express myself very well. I just wanted to tell my experience about the mather.

Were i practice is a very small dojo, we are about 20 students in the adult class. and my sensei, who is a woman, only authorize to use a hakama to those students that she thinks as family, and that to her eyes, follow the spiritual concepts and ideas of the founder and of aikido itself. It is also very important to be an active participant of the dojo activities (such as going to class, collaborate whith anything from ideas, to texts, thoughts, or even being sempai to the children class). although i've never seen anyone using hakama before geting to 4rth kyu, I seriusly doubt that this is the point.

I've recently received the honor to use a hakama myself. To me, its not a sign of status or whatsoever. Its, something that incourages me to try everyday even harder, to control my spirit and to grow in every way of my life.

Thats all, thank you for reading, I hope someone agrees with me =)

Last edited by Rodurigo : 04-15-2005 at 08:07 PM. Reason: tiping errors =P
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Old 04-16-2005, 12:56 AM   #50
darin
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Re: Hakama for non-yudansha

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:

The training issue is that at least in the yoshinkan, instructors want to see your whole posture, hips, legs, foot positions, everything. I think that is part of the reason they don't use hakama til third dan. In the rougher styles of aikido (yoseikan, shodokan in particular), the hakama also impeads 'mixing it up'.

These are style specific things though...when in Rome...

Ron
Never heard about the hakama thing in Yoshinkan but I do know that its rarely worn in traditional Yoseikan aikido. My teacher didn't care though, he let anyone wear a hakama. Its probably good to get used to wearing one from an early stage but I don't think its absolutoley necessary for doing aikido. Some schools insist that students wear one after reaching a certain grade.

Yeah although you can wear it when "mixing things up" I agree it does impead sometimes.
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