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Old 11-07-2003, 09:56 AM   #26
aikidocapecod
Dojo: Shobu Aikido Cape Cod
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
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But I don't see a connection between slapping and politics in Aikido!!!!

So I apologize for throwing my two cents in on that subject
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Old 11-07-2003, 11:01 AM   #27
mengsin
Location: malaysia
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Maresa,

Thank you for elaborating on my behalf. There is an example of what I mentioned in my earlier post. If someone can slap his sensei during training, has no place in any dojo.



Patience, Respect and Train Hard

MengSin

mengsin
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Old 11-07-2003, 02:32 PM   #28
John Boswell
 
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Quote:
Eu Soon Ong

Username: drunken_master

10-31-2003 12:19 AM

Local Time: 04:22 AM

Registered: Oct 2003

Posts: 1

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For those of you concerned or worried about the post by the person who claimed to slap his sensei... look again at his name and info, plz.

Posts: 1 ???

He's a troll. Someone was trying to be funny. I'd ignore the guy. He's making crap up to get under your skin.

Have a nice day!

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Old 11-07-2003, 08:03 PM   #29
sanosuke
Dojo: Seigi Dojo
Location: Jakarta
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Quote:
But I don't see a connection between slapping and politics in Aikido!!!!
its not, but this is an interesting case indeed. This is the first time i heard someone slapping their own sensei and throw it into the forum.
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Old 11-07-2003, 10:07 PM   #30
boni tongson
 
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Sir Eu Soon,

Come try to visit us here in the Philippines and train with us. I think we don't really improve unless we fear our sensei, right? just like fear of God.

Weak hearts and flesh do not exist where undaunted spirits dwell!
-PMA
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Old 11-08-2003, 08:06 PM   #31
mj
Location: livingston, scotland
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Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
...While I have been studying actively for about 10 years I have failed to obtain Dan rank in any one system because of my constant moving (in the Army).

...
As an aside, my experience has been exactly the opposite.

The military people are usually overgraded.

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Old 11-09-2003, 11:54 AM   #32
aikido_fudoshin
Join Date: May 2002
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Quote:
Bruce Kimpel (BKimpel) wrote:
It's funny that we use the word politics in Aikido, which in my opinion isn't completely correct since political infers a political or power struggle agenda and I don't honestly see most of the differences in Aikido styles and organizations as struggles for power or even to prove themselves better than others (although it is often manifested in the ways Tim described)…but just teaching style differences.
You may think differently once you've checked out the Ontario Yoshinkan scene. What a joke!
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Old 11-09-2003, 05:38 PM   #33
BKimpel
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Bryan,

Really? I have never been exposed to any Yoshinkan organizations (just individual practitioners), so I can't comment. I suppose it can't be any worse than the situation in UK with the division and petty rivalry after Tom Moss's death -- nor the current sillyness that will ensue now that H.Saito has left Aikikai (some might realize the mess that is going to come out of 2 styles of Aikido claiming to be Iwama-Ryu, but it will come).

A funny note about Iwama. Back when I first started Aikido I too was naïve about Aikido's history and it's politics. I knew who O-sensei was through various books but I knew nothing of the Kohei split, or the many other Uchi-Deshi that left Aikikai to be independent, nor even who Kisshomaru was (at the time). It didn't affect my Aikido one bit.

I trained with two individuals that has just returned from Japan and their attitude was attrotious. They were completely stuck up and resisted everything all the time. I learned they were Iwama-style Aikido and I said to myself, "Boy I never want to train at that dojo -- it produces jerks!"

I later started to get into Friendship seminars and video resources and was absolutely impressed by this one sensei named Saito. His power was fantastic, and you could really see the weapons influence in his tai-jutsu. I said to myself, "If I get to Japan he's the first guy I am going to look up!"

When I started to read everything about Saito, and everything he published I began to really like him. Imagine my surprise when I learned that those jerk students were Iwama-Ryu?

You may think that is funny, but it tells me how "politics" come into play and spoil the fun. Yet at the same time, I believe it is still possible to seek out good teachers and train with them regardless of the politics.

Bruce Kimpel
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Old 11-10-2003, 03:36 AM   #34
David Yap
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Quote:
Bruce Kimpel (BKimpel) wrote:
Bryan,

..(snipped>

I trained with two individuals that has just returned from Japan and their attitude was attrotious. They were completely stuck up and resisted everything all the time. I learned they were Iwama-style Aikido and I said to myself, "Boy I never want to train at that dojo -- it produces jerks!"

I later started to get into Friendship seminars and video resources and was absolutely impressed by this one sensei named Saito. His power was fantastic, and you could really see the weapons influence in his tai-jutsu. I said to myself, "If I get to Japan he's the first guy I am going to look up!" ..<snipped>..
Hi Bruce.

I believe the term "Jerk" refer to the personal/individual characters and has nothing to do with their teachers. I have some experience with some of these jerks in various dojo and they don't practise or know anything about Iwama-ryu. In one of the dojo, their teacher's impression of Iwama-ryu is that it is hard and dangerous style by just visual assessment.

Resistance is norm at every dojo (more so if it happens not to be your home dojo) but the resistance offered must also be realistic. An over-board resistance will be met with an over-board response - a slap/punch in the face. If the sempai "locked up" your technique, he should be courteous enough to show you the way to unlock it short of getting a smack (atemi)in the face.

Just my 2 sen.

Regards

David
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Old 11-10-2003, 12:22 PM   #35
Crunch44
Dojo: Aiki Budo Centre
Location: London Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Bryan Siekierko (aikido_fudoshin) wrote:
You may think differently once you've checked out the Ontario Yoshinkan scene. What a joke!
Could you elaborate? I too practice in Ontario and would be interested in a discussion.

Would a PM be better?

Thanks
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Old 05-04-2004, 03:37 AM   #36
David Yap
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Student slapped teacher in dojo

Quote:
John Boswell wrote:
For those of you concerned or worried about the post by the person who claimed to slap his sensei... look again at his name and info, plz.

Posts: 1 ???

He's a troll. Someone was trying to be funny. I'd ignore the guy. He's making crap up to get under your skin.

Have a nice day!
Hi John & everyone who was on this thread,

This post from Ong Eu Soon was months ago. Guess what, I happened to meet Mr. Ong at an aikido seminar over the weekend. His post was not a troll and the person is real and they are probably members in this forum who knew him and has trained with him before .

The truth of the matter is he did not slap his teacher (he admitted); he knocked his teacher out cold with a yokomen. I believe that there was bad blood between him and this particular teacher (a mutual ego thingy) and the moment of truth arose when he partnered up with the teacher in jiyu waza; he just put too much ki into his atemi that the teacher couldn't see it coming. Correct me, Eu Soon, if you are reading this post. Apparently, ES started first as the Nage and the teacher (according to ES) was trying to prove something by fighting and resisting ES's aikido techniques. Finally, ES took the role of the uke and he merely wanted to show the teacher what it was like to be on the receiving end; and, received was what the teacher did.

This incident really augurs my belief that a good technician does not generally mean a good teacher - the requisites of being the latter go beyond technique. I am awed by some who think that getting a Shodan means earning a right to start a dojo and stop learning entirely. I am not sure about you guys but I came across this line in aikido before, "I don't need a teacher to teach me anymore as I am already a Shodan/Yudansha".

David
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Old 05-04-2004, 07:28 AM   #37
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
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Re: Aikido politics..

Thats one of the things I like about our oranisation, the vast majority of dan grades dont teach, some organisations over here make it a prerequisite to start teaching once you reach shodan. Thats the difference between here and japan I spose, a blackbelt is viewed as a sign of mastery rather than a sign of commitment to the first steps of learning...
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Old 05-04-2004, 09:31 AM   #38
Bronson
 
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Re: Aikido politics..

In our dojo you are...not required...but encouraged and expected to start teaching duties very early. At around nikyu or ikkyu you should be assisting other instructors in some way. At shodan it's desirable for you to be teaching a class of some sort. Now, what is required is if you want to teach you have to attend the head instructor's classes on a regular basis. Have to, no exceptions.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 05-05-2004, 06:16 AM   #39
David Yap
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Re: Aikido politics..

Quote:
Bronson wrote:
In our dojo you are...not required...but encouraged and expected to start teaching duties very early. At around nikyu or ikkyu you should be assisting other instructors in some way. At shodan it's desirable for you to be teaching a class of some sort. Now, what is required is if you want to teach you have to attend the head instructor's classes on a regular basis. Have to, no exceptions.

Bronson
Assisting is one thing while actually leading or instructing a class without undergoing prior instructors training course/class is another one.

Someone posted this in the AJ forum, "Crappy instructor produces crappy students"; if I may add: "Crappy students then go on to become crappy instructors".

This cancer has to be nipped at the bud. For the love and continuity of the Art, Shihans/senior instructors/head of organisations need to step in to stop the flow of crappy instructions and instructors. One way to doing it is to limit the qualification of instructors to sandan & above or issue teaching certificates to those who have undergone a course on instructing and has been observed and proven to possess the spirit and maturity to teach.

David

Last edited by David Yap : 05-05-2004 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 05-05-2004, 07:52 AM   #40
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
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Re: Aikido politics..

I beleive in our organisation only yondan and above are considered sensei, I think the only 3rd dans who teach a class are my 2 sensei (due to geographical constraints).
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:46 PM   #41
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Student slapped teacher in dojo

Quote:
David Yap wrote:
The truth of the matter is he did not slap his teacher (he admitted); he knocked his teacher out cold with a yokomen.
David
This is soooooo funny, I can't stop laughing Nice shot. I sincerly hope his teacher learned something form this KO.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:22 PM   #42
stuartjvnorton
 
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Re: Aikido politics..

Where I started training, seniors are expected to train with juniors before, during & after class and help them where they can.
Sensei's a big fan of Shioda Kancho's saying "master is student and student is master". :-)
No one takes a class though, except Mori sensei.
So the beginners get a 6th dan to take every class and several 3rd dans to train hands-on with them every day.
I'd prefer this to the "you're a big bad shodan now: now get out there & expand my empire".
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Old 05-10-2004, 07:41 PM   #43
Doka
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Re: Aikido politics..

Quote:
Bruce Kimpel wrote:
It's funny that we use the word politics in Aikido, which in my opinion isn't completely correct since political infers a political or power struggle agenda....

....Truthfully the only time these "politics" even affect you are when you want that little piece of paper (a rank certificate).
Actually I have heard of some disgusting examples of politics in Aikido, and other martial arts. It all stems from ego of course, and does not often have to do with little pieces of paper, although that can be used as a threat (not getting it) or insentive (getting it)!

I have heard of people kicked out for training in other dojo, people who have been banned from talking about aikido (incase it is different to the Sensei), not graded because they were not as popular as others, HURT because they said the wrong thing or questioned something..... The list goes on!

Please let me qualify this to say that I have trained in a lot of dojo and I am not giving examples of Yoshinkan dojo here!
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