Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-07-2003, 02:48 AM   #1
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
Offline
Breathe for life - Warming up

Hi all,

A couple of months ago, I was training in a dojo that has a warming up routine that seem to contradict the breathing techniques that I have been taught in my 30 years of MA training. Your thoughts on this is much appreciated.

The class always begins with the rowing exercise. The rowing exercise I learned to do in my other aikido classes was done with a natural breathing rhythm. Here in this particular class, the students were leaded to row like the boat had sprung a leak and they needed to get to the shore before the boat went under. As this was the first exercise, I would take it easy and "row" in rhythm with my natural breathing. But the instructor would look at me disgusted that I could not keep up with the rest of the class or thinking that I was being disrespectful to him (I left the class as I got the cue from him later that the disgust was meant for the latter).

I was told that when the heart is stressed, it is shown in the breathing and how we breath will also affect our heart rates. IMHO, I do not think that it is appropriate to stress the heart even before we get a good decent warm up.

In your opinion, what is a good or decent routine for warming up in an aikido class?

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2003, 03:43 AM   #2
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
(got in just before Paul and Kevin descend on this one from a great height...)

I've always had a problem with regard to the warm-ups in most of the dojo's I've attended. My first instructor was firmly of the opinion that warming up was the student's problem and should be performed prior to the class, so no real help there. Other's seem to be a lack-lustre halfway house between getting warmed up and stretching, with no real thought about the exercises. My current dojo's practice is not optimal in my opinion, standard exercises (such as the rowing one you describe)and some breakfall practice and stretching - but thankfully no emphasis on "correct" breathing and at least care is taken concerning correct posture.

When I take the class I try and include some of the warm-ups suggested by the gym with at least an attempt to move from cold to glowing, without excessively stressing people and making sure all joints are loosened. Having said that, people are there to be taught aikido, not the warm up, so you've got a limited time frame for this in any class.

David, sounds like that sensei had done some tai-chi before and had missed the point of some of their breathing exercises, which are specifically meant to work against the body's movement. Cross-pollination isn't always good...
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2003, 05:10 AM   #3
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
First of all, unless you are so unconditioned that you can't walk up a flight of stairs without medical supervision, I seriously doubt you need to worry about the amount of "stress" this warmup is placing on your heart. A healthy heart is no where near that fragile.

As far as the wisdom or purpose of the warmup goes, I can't be of much help. I tend to think that all the emphasis on special, deliberate breathing patterns in martial arts and yoga is mostly a lot of nonsense. While consciously altering breathing can affect emotional and arousal states, unless you're hyperventilating, holding the breath, or doing something else that's weird, I think there are more important things to focus on... unless you're doing some kind of dedicated meditation practice. The body seems to do a pretty good job of managing autonomic functions like heart rythym, breathing, temperature regulation, and digestion just fine without the intervention of our conscious minds or the need for secret techniques passed down from the mists of antiquity.

The use of the rowing exercise combined with the shouting of what I presume are some kind of sacred shinto syllables seems to be quite a warm-up fad these days. I find it a bit silly, since it's not coming from a place of organic familiarity with the context or traditions where the practice originates, and no one even seems to have a clear idea of it's meaning or purpose. I feel like I am ignorantly and emptily aping a piece of someone else's religion.

It's also technically confusing. One sensei emphasized that the shouts are to be forceful ki-ais, but if so, at the rate he went, I can't figure out when I'm supposed to inhale. I finally came up with a scheme where I ki-ai every other shout, and murmur/inhale during the intervening ones. The whole thing isn't important enough to turn me off to aikido, or even enough to make a fuss over, but I'd definitely feel better if the whole business quietly faded away.

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 10-07-2003 at 05:13 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2003, 11:38 AM   #4
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
Recent studies have shown that stretching exercises are of no benefit for preventing injury, though gentle exercise is. I hate spending time warming up - if there is an instructor there they should be making the most of the instruction time. I heard Ueshiba (at least in his later years) did not do any warm-ups for formal training (though he can be seen doing it on videos), and expected people to warm up before hand.

I do very little seperate warm-up (e.g. swining arms, streching legs - all lasting less than 10 mins total). The real warm up is the practise stuff at the start - lots of irimi-tenkan, then tae-sebaki with partner (one-arm, two arm grab) i.e. tailoring this part of the warm up to actually train the body simultaneously! Also, as a warm down (many believe is more important) I do seated kokyu-ho.

Ian

P.S. I believe breathing exercises are useful to some extent, but only in order to promote a good deep breathing pattern. I don't see how the rowing exercise as you describe it, ties in to martial arts.

Last edited by ian : 10-07-2003 at 11:40 AM.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2003, 09:50 PM   #5
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
Offline
Quote:
Ian Hurst wrote:
<snipped>.. people are there to be taught aikido, not the warm up, so you've got a limited time frame for this in any class.

David, sounds like that sensei had done some tai-chi before and had missed the point of some of their breathing exercises, which are specifically meant to work against the body's movement. Cross-pollination isn't always good...
Ian,

I agree that people are there to learn aikido and not the warm up but some instructors do consider warm ups regimental. IMHO, simple warming up like jumping on the spot for half a minute will suffice.

Based on the 2-months training experience with him, I doubt the sensei has done tai-chi. If he has, I think that it would have superficial.
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
First of all, unless you are so unconditioned that you can't walk up a flight of stairs without medical supervision, I seriously doubt you need to worry about the amount of "stress" this warmup is placing on your heart. A healthy heart is no where near that fragile..<snipped>..I tend to think that all the emphasis on special, deliberate breathing patterns in martial arts and yoga is mostly a lot of nonsense..<snipped>..
Kevin,

A leisurely walk up the stairs and a running up the stairs as if being chased by a mad doberman is two extreme things. At least, the latter is adrenline assisted. I tend not to agree with you on the nonsense part about breathing patterns in MA & yoga. Do you include Aikido in this category? Wouldn't you agree that most if not all the throws in Aikido are executed with breathing patterns? In your class, do you not do suwari-waza kokyu-ho?

Warm regards

David

Last edited by David Yap : 10-07-2003 at 09:59 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 08:50 AM   #6
jxa127
Dojo: Itten Dojo -- Mechanicsburg, PA
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 420
Offline
David,

Every now and again, I lead warm-ups for the class. I like to start with the aiki taiso exercises, at least some of them, just to get our bodies moving. Alternately, we do some solo striking practice. Then some stretching, and then we practice ukemi. They key seems to be that our warm-ups also have some instruction built into them. I think that's kinda neat.

Regarding breathing: I generally inhale at the beginning of a movement and exhale at the end of it. That's my understanding of at least part of the kokyo concept. Is that what you meant by doing the exercise in time with your natural breathing?

Regards,

-Drew

----
-Drew Ames
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 09:48 AM   #7
Victor Ditoro
Dojo: Retsushinkan Dojo
Location: Alabama
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 20
Offline
If aikido was an athletic event then I would say...

"I think any fitness trainer or athlete would agree that warming up is absolutely vital before strenuous excercise, if for no other reason than you perform much better warm than cold. While I am relatively new to Aikido, I have many years of running, swimming, and cycling experience and have never encountered anyone who would compete in any sport without a good warmup... I know plenty of people who go to the gym and workout without warming up, but have never known *anyone* who was actually trying to be competitive in a sport skip the warmup. Are they right? Who knows."

However, Aikido pratice is not an atheltic event...

"Most Aikido practice is not "strenous excercise" and the class is closer to the intensity of a "warm up" from a competitive athlete's point of view. Keep in mind that a runner might "warm up" by doing 3 miles at 8:00 pace. For someone who doesn't run, that would be murder, not a warmup. In the same way that a person can go play hard tennis without warming up, you can probably do Aikido fine without warming up. Unless you have specific pains during class that need some attention before hand, its probably not strictly essential that you "warm up" before Aikido. Still, it feels better to do technique warm and stretched out, at least to me.

Since you are paying for Aikido instruction, the focus of aiki taiso should be on improving the funadamental stances and movements that form the basis of good technique. If that includes breathing, fine. But whatever it is, it should be those excercises which are compatible with the specific curriculum and help students learn good, balanced movement. As a side effect, it will bring your body temp up a bit and warm you up so you don't feel so tight during class.

I completely agree with Kevin that there is probably no activity in Aikido, including a vigorous standing row, that would be of a health concern. If the rapid rowing fits in with that dojo's curriculum and philosophy, then so be it. In our dojo we have a varied set of aiki taiso that I would imagine came from AAA and Toyoda sensei, but every excercise is related to the curriculum, in that there is at least one technique which mimics the motions in the excercise in some way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 10:31 AM   #8
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
Quote:
However, Aikido pratice is not an atheltic event...
ath·let·ic adj

Characterized by or involving physical activity or exertion; active:

Is aikido not a physical activity, or do you use ki blasts a la Dragonball Z?

Curious,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 11:26 AM   #9
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
A proper warm-up is a good thing. For some activities, like heavy lifting, proper specific warmup is pretty much necessary. For some people who are seriously out of shape and overweight, a good overall warmup and cool down is even more important, due to C/V risks like heart attack and blood pooling.

Unfortunately, outside of warm ups I've conducted or ones I've seen Paul lead, I've never seen anything approaching a proper warmup prior to an Aikido class. It's not that complicated, it's just that Aikido people seem not to even have the right concepts.

I'm not sure about the "recent study" cited above, but I agree that static stretching is virtually irrelevant to warming up... if anything I believe it has caused or exacerbated minor injuries for me in the past. I would also classify deliberate breathing patterns or shouting exercises as virtually irrelevant.

The most important thing in warming up is literally warming up. To do this, you've got to get off your butt and move around, which isn't always popular. A few minutes of some kind of light exercise that involves most of the body that induces heavy breathing and a little perspiration is the first thing.

The next thing is to introduce or prepare the tissues that are going to be stressed for the specific kind of stress they are about to undergo. This could include movements that mimick the activity, or movements modified to provide dynamic 'stretches' at the end points of certain ROMs. With Aikido, the moves are so varied, that this could be tricky. I like limb circles and swings that cover most of the body's possible ROM, followed by light rolls/ukemi drills and specific exercises like the two-step... maybe some bodyweight lunge variations, squats, etc...
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 11:52 AM   #10
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,966
Offline
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
AUnfortunately, outside of warm ups I've conducted or ones I've seen Paul lead, I've never seen anything approaching a proper warmup prior to an Aikido class. It's not that complicated, it's just that Aikido people seem not to even have the right concepts.
This has been a sore subject (literally and metaphorically) for me for yrs. In most dojo I've been in, as member or visitor, most often "warmups" are a hodgepodge of whatever the person leading them was taught over the years and almost always involves going directly into stretching cold muscles.

A person should not need a degree in physiology or physical training to teach aikido, but taking an interest enough to do some basic research would be nice (smile).

Meanwhile, I suggest individuals take responsibility for their health and adapt the warmups as they need to, even if it means being "odd man out" on the mat.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 12:16 PM   #11
Victor Ditoro
Dojo: Retsushinkan Dojo
Location: Alabama
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 20
Offline
Paul,

While I would hate to argue with a dictionary writer, I'm not prepared to agree that any and all things that involve physical activity are athletic. I appreciate that you might apply the word to a construction worker, since he is involved in physical exertion, or to a waiter, but to me that is not how the word is used in our language, regardless of the definition given.

At any rate, my somewhat rambling point was that I don't believe Aikido is an activity of similar exertion to competitive sport such that it requires a proper warmup to avoid cramping, strains, inferior performance,etc.. in the same way that "sports" do. Yes, its good to stretch out dynamically before practicing, and yes its good to get your body temperature up, but my point was that the pre-class exercises should be whatever things are fundamental for that school's curriculum...getting "warmed up" is a secondary focus.

Just my opinion, anyway.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 12:26 PM   #12
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
A person should not need a degree in physiology or physical training to teach aikido, but taking an interest enough to do some basic research would be nice (smile).
Janet, there are dojos which are still in the Tokugawa era in terms of their understanding of the human body and I don't think that Meiji guy is coming around any time soon.

I think anyone teaching classes would do well with a basic personal trainer certification or the like. I did it after a FUBAR at a dojo. I was part of the FUBAR by the way. I won't claim it taught me anything I couldn't have learned otherwise, and much of it I already knew, but it gave me a baseline I didn't have and it provided surprising insight in a couple of areas.

At the very least it might put to rest the nonsense about weight training which continually comes up.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 01:18 PM   #13
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
Offline
Victor,
Quote:
At any rate, my somewhat rambling point was that I don't believe Aikido is an activity of similar exertion to competitive sport such that it requires a proper warmup to avoid cramping, strains, inferior performance,etc.. in the same way that "sports" do.
Let me be clear. I'm not suggesting that aikidoists must have the same level of fitness as Olympic level athletes. However, as Kevin and others have pointed out repeatedly, there is a minimum level of fitness necessary to participate in aikido without undo risk of injury. I firmly believe any instructor that does not address this does their students a great diservice.

For me, personally, a brief warm up based on sound athletic training is one way to do it (and Kevin touches on how in his previous post). Alternatively, I would be fine with an instructor who took the approach of Ian Hurst's first instructor -- namely, students are on their own.

My point is, aside from improving one's spirit, I hope that aikido would improve one's body as well. That is to say someone who trained aikido for 30 or 40 years would be better off because of their training, rather than nursing various injuries.

Erik,
Quote:
...there are dojos which are still in the Tokugawa era in terms of their understanding of the human body and I don't think that Meiji guy is coming around any time soon.
Sad but true.

Janet,
Quote:
A person should not need a degree in physiology or physical training to teach aikido, but taking an interest enough to do some basic research would be nice (smile).
Agreed. A proper warm isn't that hard to plan out, and needn't take a large amount of class time.

Regards,

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 01:32 PM   #14
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,966
Offline
Quote:
Victor Ditoro wrote:
At any rate, my somewhat rambling point was that I don't believe Aikido is an activity of similar exertion to competitive sport such that it requires a proper warmup to avoid cramping, strains, inferior performance,etc.. in the same way that "sports" do.
Those of us who have had to have rehab or surgery as a result of sports injuries incurred in training are likely to respectfully disagree.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 03:56 PM   #15
Victor Ditoro
Dojo: Retsushinkan Dojo
Location: Alabama
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 20
Offline
Janet,

I certainly was not implying that injuries are impossible in Aikido. Obviously, as you have clearly experienced, they are. Depending on what happened, a warmup may have helped.

I suppose I need to learn to distill my thoughts more, I wasn't trying to bash anyone at all. A component of the poster's original question was "How are these aikido warmup things supposed to go?", specifically with regard to breath training.

All I was trying to say is "There needn't be anything especially athletic about them, its probably more important that they teach aikido fundamentals relative to that dojo than strengthen or stretch the body."

Obviously, knowing about the body is a great benefit in teaching, but it is clearly possible to practice aikido for many decades without being what someone would normally call "physically fit".
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 05:37 PM   #16
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,966
Offline
Hi, Victor.

Yes we are probably more in agreement than not!

I agree that a high degree of athleticism is not a requirement--one need only consider the many folks who are disabled, elderly, or overweight who train quite well to see this.

I suppose I was considering it more from the angle of each individual being aware of/responsible for the condition and conditioning of her own body, to a degree that muscles and support structures can promote good body mechanics and safe training, AND that those who teach (IMO) should have the basic knowledge to not demonstrate and lead others into harmful or pointless warmups.

And yes, the most appropriate warmups are the ones that contain movements commonly used within that dojo style. Besides building muscle memory, it allows the instructor to monitor for and correct poor body mechanics that lead to higher risk of injury.

cheers!

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2003, 06:26 PM   #17
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
.... should have the basic knowledge to not demonstrate and lead others into harmful or pointless warmups.

And yes, the most appropriate warmups are the ones that contain movements commonly used within that dojo style. Besides building muscle memory, it allows the instructor to monitor for and correct poor body mechanics that lead to higher risk of injury.
This is what kills me about the stretches commonly done as part of warm ups: most are so obviously irrelevant or even contrary to what is done later when the Aikido starts up. A very popular movement is extreme spinal flexion - sitting, standing, even with a twist! Last time I checked, keeping the spine neutral and bending at the hips, ankles and knees is just about the most basic, inviolable Aikido movement principle (except during falls). Why practice an action and ingrain a movement pattern that is essentially prohibited in the art?

Of course, if you ask someone why they are doing it, they'll claim it is a hamstring stretch, to alleviate the "tightness" in their hamstrings. Since most people seem to have more than enough hip flexion available to do whatever they want, I have difficulty understanding this. I think it must some kind of mass delusion or psychosomatic disorder. I have even more trouble understanding why flexing the spine is supposed to alleviate it.

This motion/stretch in particular goes back to the issue of advocating something that is beyond pointless and actually likely to be harmful. There is an epidemic of back pain and injury in the US, and I think the poor body mechanics that many people use when sitting and bending over is the major cause. In short, most of our spines are already hugely, chronically over-flexed, and more flexion, especially of the forced, passive variety is the last thing we need.

This is only one example. I agree with Paul: if instructors cannot do better than the pointless or the harmful, they should just give it up and set aside an anarchist's warmup period prior to the class and leave the students to their own devices. I usually do a minimal self-warm-up before getting on the mat, even if late, and just go through the motions with the class warm-ups - following along either using a minimal non-stretching ROM or altering the biomechanics to effect a safe position (such as forward bending with a neutral spine instead of flexed).
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2003, 02:50 AM   #18
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
Offline
Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
<snipped>..

Meanwhile, I suggest individuals take responsibility for their health and adapt the warmups as they need to, even if it means being "odd man out" on the mat.
Janet,

Totally agreed. But being the "odd man out", in my experience, will very soon be made unwelcomed in cultist like dojo where students are leaded to believe that the instructor or chief instructor can do or teach no wrong. Coming from another dojo or MA will even make the situation more sticky as "emptying the cup" would also mean throwing the good/right stuff you have learned and picking up stuff that you that know/feel is pointless or fundamentally wrong or detrimental to your well-being. Not conforming then would be equate as not respecting the instructor. To avoid a conflict in this case, IMHO, the gracious thing to do is to stop training at the "feudalistic/cultist" dojo concerned.

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2003, 03:21 AM   #19
drDalek
 
drDalek's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 155
Offline
According to who takes the warmup at our dojo, we do everything from gradual stretches to playing dodgeball before class.

Maybe someone with some actual qualifications can give us a "real" warmup in the form of a numbered list with adequate descriptions of each step?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2003, 03:50 AM   #20
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
Offline
Quote:
Drew Ames (jxa127) wrote:
<snipped>..

Regarding breathing: I generally inhale at the beginning of a movement and exhale at the end of it. That's my understanding of at least part of the kokyo concept. Is that what you meant by doing the exercise in time with your natural breathing?

-Drew
Sorry Drew, I missed out ur reply.

Yes, that's what I meant by natural breathing and I would add that one would breathe in calm and relaxed state. NOT forcing oneself to pant or to breathe shallowly. Normally, in the rowing exercise, one would make a "he" sound when inhaling and a "ho" or "sa" sound when exhaling.

Now, compare rowing at quick pace like "hehohehohehohehoheho.." or a "hesahesahesahesa.." instead of a normal pace of "heeeeho" or "heeeesa" where the inhale is deep and the exhale is a big burst of breath - which some shihan showed to explain the "aiki" and "kiai" concept. What exactly is the objective of this exercise, may I ask, if it is done at fast tempo?

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2003, 05:28 AM   #21
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 561
Malaysia
Offline
Quote:
David Yap wrote:
... "emptying the cup" would also mean throwing the good/right stuff you have learned...
Hi all,

Ops!! Too late to edit. I meant to say is that for the unlearned it may involve throwing the good/right stuff..but for the learned it will just be putting aside.

David
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2003, 08:12 AM   #22
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
Quote:
Wynand van Dyk (drDalek) wrote:
According to who takes the warmup at our dojo, we do everything from gradual stretches to playing dodgeball before class.

Maybe someone with some actual qualifications can give us a "real" warmup in the form of a numbered list with adequate descriptions of each step?
That sounds like a very smart idea. However, that's a lot of work to ask someone qualified to do for free. The amount of work involved could be radically reduced if you just got someone to do it in person. The best would be to get a trainer or coach in to see a typical class or two, design your warmup, then teach/demonstrate it to your teaching staff on videotape, for future reference. It wouldn't cost much, and it would be a great investment in the well-being of your dojo's members. I have an idea of how you might solicit a qualified person to do it and/or get further leads on how. You may want to contact me privately, so as not to bore others with the details.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2003, 08:25 AM   #23
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
Quote:
David Yap wrote:
Now, compare rowing at quick pace like "hehohehohehohehoheho.." or a "hesahesahesahesa.." instead of a normal pace of "heeeeho" or "heeeesa" where the inhale is deep and the exhale is a big burst of breath - which some shihan showed to explain the "aiki" and "kiai" concept. What exactly is the objective of this exercise, may I ask, if it is done at fast tempo?
As I said, I'm skeptical as to the point at any tempo. However, Aikido is a traditional(ish) martial art. If you want to practice something steeped in traditions like Aikido, I think you just have to put up with a certain amount of stuff that doesn't make sense. While I find a lot of this warm-up stuff good fodder for complaint, none of it is enough to turn me off to Aikido overall. If you are really interested in training with practical-minded, results-oriented people who place a higher premium on what makes sense and not wasting time than doing things the way their teacher told them to, I think you're looking for an MMA gym or maybe a JKD group or something.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2003, 09:23 AM   #24
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,724
United_States
Offline
IMHO, warming up is a part of the training, not separate from it. We do the full formal warm up each class. Its a great time to work on form and focus. I am grateful.

I have always beleived that the heart is a muscle that grows through use.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2003, 09:37 AM   #25
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,854
Offline
Quote:
Kevin Wilbanks wrote:
This is what kills me about the stretches commonly done as part of warm ups: most are so obviously irrelevant or even contrary to what is done later when the Aikido starts up. A very popular movement is extreme spinal flexion - sitting, standing, even with a twist! Last time I checked, keeping the spine neutral and bending at the hips, ankles and knees is just about the most basic, inviolable Aikido movement principle (except during falls). Why practice an action and ingrain a movement pattern that is essentially prohibited in the art?
What about movements in the role of uke?

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Long Island Asian Studies Center - Classes: Aiki Budo/Chi Gong/Tai Chi, Author of: Searching For O'Sensei



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Warming up knees? Daniel Mills General 20 05-24-2003 07:51 AM
How to breathe arvin m. Techniques 3 08-29-2001 02:33 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:39 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate