(ok, flame retardant suit on)
(This is a longish post BTW)
In answering Chris' "Dealing with Shoulder Strikes" post, I had to remind myself of what some of the correct technique names were. My brain is going a little fuzzy.
I went to google and typed in Kaiten Nage
First page up was this one
Ok, so far so good. Pretty much what I was after. To double check I click on the mov file from that page
Which inspires this post.
Why in gods name are there "long versions" of techniques? Historically or in modern times? Unless for the purpose of illustrating priciples (which may or may not be properly explained anyway), I can't fathom why you'd want to learn the "long version."
(Specifically, and this could be wrong)
From my perspective, after the initail contact (time index 00:00:01:07), the unbalancing triangle point point is over the left hand shoulder of the teacher. (Technically, perpendicular to her two legs). But the guy takes her the other way.
That's fine, because the force vector of her strike is along her arm. So he turns into it. It would have been much easier and quicker just to feed her arm off in the above direction, but it wouldn't be kaiten nage.
Time index 02:01 - the force vector and throw are directly in line with her arm. He's already got the lever! Just pull her forwards for chrissakes! (But again, not kaiten nage).
Instead, he brings her shoulder down, then uses that configuration to push her arm back in the direction she could have gone in anyway.
By my reckoning, there are then at least two points at which a simple, more direct version of the throw / other throw would have worked.
Now, my other question (finally)
Do you feel that learning the more complex, "long" flowing versions of the throws impedes the speed at which these throws can be applied in real life (TM), as per Chris' video example? I can't for the life of me imagine you'd be able to lead that big guy into a pretty little circle. My imagination is fairly poor, so ;-)
How is this kind of flow achieved against resisting opponents? (other than by speed, strength of suprise)?