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Old 08-13-2003, 07:43 AM   #1
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
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hit on the butt

~~I've seen kote geishi exicuted at different times by different people where they tenkan way behind uke and hit them on the butt before going on with technique. Why do they do that? Just wondering...

~~Paula~~
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Old 08-13-2003, 08:09 AM   #2
taras
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which foot do they use to kick? it's got to be the back foot, something like a round-house kick? Could be an infuence from hapkido.
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Old 08-13-2003, 08:14 AM   #3
ian
 
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Traditional aikijitsu style is to use the elbow of the spare arm to strike the kidneys before applying kote-gaeshi. Incidently kote-gaeshi can also utilise a pressure point in the hand.

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 08-13-2003, 08:44 AM   #4
souji
 
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They might use that to break the uke's posture so they could execute the kote geishi more effectively. It's more practical...
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Old 08-13-2003, 09:35 AM   #5
rachmass
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I'm one of those "butt slappers"; wish I could explain it (can show it, not explain it), but it really does work in taking balance even further and creating a good amount of distance between partners (stretching uke out as it were).
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Old 08-13-2003, 09:35 AM   #6
opherdonchin
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Whenever I do it, it's because uke has a cute butt.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 08-13-2003, 10:15 AM   #7
Erik
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It's done to make sure that you 'really' tenkan. If you can hit them on the butt then you did a fairly deep turn. It also helps posture because it's hard to do when leaning forward.

In other words, it's a learning tool. Some people probably did it so much that it became habit.

Last edited by Erik : 08-13-2003 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 08-13-2003, 10:21 AM   #8
rachmass
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thanks Erik, there's a good explanation...
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Old 08-13-2003, 03:46 PM   #9
jxa127
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Quote:
Opher Donchin (opherdonchin) wrote:
Whenever I do it, it's because uke has a cute butt.
I was thinking that, but I wasn't going to say it.

Regards,

-Drew

----
-Drew Ames
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Old 08-14-2003, 08:47 AM   #10
SeiserL
 
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IMHO, a quick hip/butt check can move their center and begin to take their balance. It can also be like an atemi that changes their mental focus from their hand to their butt making less resistance to the kote-gaeshi.

Lynn Seiser PhD
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We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 08-14-2003, 08:54 AM   #11
Ron Tisdale
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Hi Lynn,
Quote:
...and begin to take their balance...
But shouldn't their balance be broken at first contact?

Ron (just currious)

Ron Tisdale
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Old 08-14-2003, 10:13 AM   #12
souji
 
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Some people may be too stubborn

Like in a real life situation. They are very agressive and harder to take down with a kote geishi unlike in the dojo where you train with your friends. So the but slap can guide as an atemi like Lynn said.
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Old 08-14-2003, 10:33 AM   #13
Ron Tisdale
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Generally, the technique done properly works with or without friends, at least in my experience. When I've had problems with kotegaeshi (and I've had many, some in public), slapping them in the butt didn't help. And if I want to take someone's balance with atemi, I can think of better places to slap them (other than the butt). But none of that really helps my **kotegaeshi**. It might make me a better slapper though...

RT

PS this is not a rant against atemi...I'm just trying to focus on the technique for a moment...

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 08-14-2003, 10:34 AM   #14
Erik
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Quote:
Lynn Seiser (SeiserL) wrote:
IMHO, a quick hip/butt check can move their center and begin to take their balance. It can also be like an atemi that changes their mental focus from their hand to their butt making less resistance to the kote-gaeshi.
I don't think this is what she's seeing but I understand your point. It's also useful in situations where you need to get uke to arch their back.
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Old 09-09-2003, 01:28 AM   #15
Abasan
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I always see minegeshi sensei do it. she's one of those old sprightly lady sensei's from osensei's time that smile the brightest when they throw sturdy young men on their butts.

i always thought she gets her kicks from spanking those butts.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 09-09-2003, 06:40 AM   #16
aiki_what
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"But shouldn't their balance be broken at first contact?"

In a perfect world, but sometimes you need backup plans.
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Old 09-09-2003, 06:53 PM   #17
PeterR
 
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I visited the Dojo of a Himeji based Shihan last month and we did the butt slapping in kotegaishi. Of course I did everything they did in absolute seriousness but frankly speaking I left that particualr variation in their dojo.

I had never seen or done that before however it seemed to me it was not so much balance taking but ensuring the tenkan was far enough that balance was taken. More for nage's reference than any great effect on uke.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-10-2003, 08:09 AM   #18
Tim Griffiths
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I think it depends on how small your tenkan is. My sensei, who pulls the arm round in a tight turn, uses the butt slap to get uke moving forward first. I don't use it, but then I give uke a little forward movement from the wrist hold first, so they're moving anyway.

So whether its constructive or not depends on the way you're doing the tenkan. A lot of people do it because their sensei does it (which is the way it should be) whether they need it or not).

For what its worth, I never liked the elbow to the kidneys/uke's elbow - it seemed to break up the flow of the movement too much for my taste.

Tim

If one makes a distinction between the dojo and the battlefield, or being in your bedroom or in public, then when the time comes there will be no opportunity to make amends. (Hagakure)
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Old 09-28-2003, 07:33 PM   #19
Largo
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they do it because it's a different technique- the sukebe-nage. Ask your teacher about it
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Old 09-28-2003, 08:18 PM   #20
akiy
 
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Quote:
Paul Mihalik (Largo) wrote:
they do it because it's a different technique- the sukebe-nage. Ask your teacher about it
I'd have classified it as a form of sawari waza myself...

-- Jun

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Old 09-28-2003, 09:17 PM   #21
Kensho Furuya
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I am glad we are all "shiri-ai!"
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Old 09-28-2003, 11:44 PM   #22
Largo
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it seems like there are a lot of "mono-shiri" in here today...
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