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Old 07-30-2003, 09:48 PM   #26
Pretoriano
 
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Dojo: Aikido Santa Fe
Location: Aragua Venezuela
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 130
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Post Ishiyamaryu

Training under the concepts expresed on this website is perfectly valid to me, I dont see nothing wrong with it, correct me if so.

I guess you can expect good level of development on that dojo, what this guy says is true and simple to understand.

P.D. Note that the writer doesnt even have to rely and/or explain any spiritual concepts just technique, mind and attitude to make it look beatiful.

Praetoriano

Caracas, Venezuela
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Old 07-31-2003, 12:46 AM   #27
kironin
 
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Dojo: Houston Ki Aikido
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Wink

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
If you do a search on E-Budo, you'll turn up some interesting things. t...

'Nough said.

RT
Well I had the patience to look.

Was worth it to join to use the search function which made it easy look

Enough said is right.

whew, dude, don't stand downwind.

McDojo Soke time.

C
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Old 07-31-2003, 08:17 AM   #28
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
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Hey Jesse,

I think you have to join to use the search funtion (as Craig mentioned) so a link isn't going to be much good. Let me ask you this...did you read the rest of the site? Did you notice that there is no mention of exactly who this gentleman trained under? Or what ranks/menkyo were achieved? In ***any*** of the arts he speaks of?

Think for yourself; why is that? There may be a good reason for that...but then again...

RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-31-2003, 10:56 AM   #29
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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I do agree that in order for one to comment on aikido, it helps to have some exposure to the art. How long that exposure is, it's really anyones guess. However, I don't think one needs to have a menkyo or has had to have trained under a top level shihan to comment about aikido.

To play devils advocate, I have heard the same comments by folks on e-budo (people that I respect because of their years of experience) but they haven't trained in aikido. Yet, their opinions about it are never questioned. Not trying to be a hard case, but I am trying to point out another viewpoints and comments made by non-aikidoka.

Personally, I think the title of the article was a bit harsh, but I believe he made a fundamental observation, perhaps based on some experience that he may or may not have had.

Eric Joyce
Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu
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Old 07-31-2003, 11:22 AM   #30
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
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Hi Eric,

Of course he has the right to comment. Never said he didn't. But how I take those comments, now *that* I have control over. As always, context is everything, and I note that he provides very little context for such a harsh statement.

RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-31-2003, 11:28 AM   #31
Jesse Lee
Dojo: Tenzan Aikido, formerly named Seattle Aikikai
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Good points all around.

If I ever get it together enough to drop in there and train for a while, I will report back! That is, if the Sensei is willing to train an aikido criminal like me

Juuust kiddin'

Last edited by Jesse Lee : 07-31-2003 at 11:30 AM.

, can't find m s
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Old 07-31-2003, 11:29 AM   #32
kironin
 
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Quote:
Eric Joyce wrote:
To play devils advocate, I have heard the same comments by folks on e-budo (people that I respect because of their years of experience) but they haven't trained in aikido. Yet, their opinions about it are never questioned. Not trying to be a hard case, but I am trying to point out another viewpoints and comments made by non-aikidoka.
It's one thing to make comments in a forum discussion and another to paint another art with a negative broad brush on your web site advertising your school. It's an especially silly thing to do when you are living in a glass house.

Just because something is never questioned in a forum does not mean it is any more correct.

Craig
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Old 07-31-2003, 11:34 AM   #33
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
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Craig,

Ron,

I understand. Point taken.

Craig,

Really don't see the difference. Tell you what...what don't you email him and find out. Personally, it doesn't matter if ones says it in a flyer, bullentin board or on a webpage. The fact is they are saying it. But, if you need explanation and validation from this dude, feel free to email the guy. Maybe he will all enlighten us.

Eric Joyce
Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu
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Old 07-31-2003, 11:55 AM   #34
kironin
 
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Quote:
Eric Joyce wrote:
Really don't see the difference.
The difference is in one case you make comments in a forum that you don't control the content and where others are free to provide rebuttal. In the other case you make statements where you have complete control over content and message.

is that clear ?



I don't need to waste my time on this dude anymore than I already have looking up his very long posts and many other long replies by other people on e-budo. Life is too short and there are enough Soke wannabee dabblers with McDojos in Texas to deal with who also can talk a good game.

Craig
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Old 07-31-2003, 12:59 PM   #35
Pretoriano
 
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You three guys make me...zzzzzzzz!

Doesnt matter,

Pretorian
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Old 07-31-2003, 01:09 PM   #36
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
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Pretorian,

Your right, it's time for a break.

Eric Joyce
Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu
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Old 08-08-2003, 10:23 PM   #37
Thor's Hammer
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To answer the original question, I think it's confusing enough learning the basic techniques and movements without the added 'do' aspect. Also, for the self-defense type, why should the instructor spend time teaching them the 'do' when they don't care much?

As for the poor soul who wrote the "CRIME OF CONTEMPORARY AIKIDO" I feel really sorry for them because they have only the slightest clue what they are talking about. True, high ranking people will help newbies do the technique, but that's just so that they can get the idea of doing the technique correctly. Once you reach about 3 months, if you screw up, uke lets you know! Practicing with yudansha, they will throw a reversal and have you ass over teakettle before you know what's going on. These yudansha are the students of the shihan, or their students students, yet I have no doubt of the 'combat effectiveness' Aikido is not some sort of dance. It's inexperienced people shooting their mouth off like this that give Aikido a 'bad rep.'
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Old 08-11-2003, 11:18 AM   #38
ian
 
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Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
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Yep, I agree there has to be a progression from a well developed basic form in aikido. It is a bit like learning extension. You could tell someone what it is and use ki visualisation or whatever to expalin it but that isn't going to really help. There has to be some form or initial practice where we can really learn when extension works and when we are not extending through the physical reality of it.

However there is circularity to the training method. It is very much like the way I learn swimming technique. I learnt to swim the basic stroke of 'front crawl'. Once my arms went where I wanted them to I got very good at this stroke. Then I found I could improve my front crawl by changing my stroke quite radically. I swam much slower for a while, but eventually I managed to reach a faster speed.

Without a well trained hard effective form it is impossible to understand the difference between being soft and blending. I think many clubs make this mistake. Unlike aikido, (some) aikijitsu training also contains a refined training model where there are distinct stages of progression from the hard (usually with more strikes) to the more blending (less strikes but faster).

Ian

P.S. I do aikido and not aikijitsu, and though I think there are useful principles which tend to be emphasised in aikido all too often aikido seems to become a cult of the personality rather than a method which the students honestly reflect on. We all have to be thieves in aikido, stealing what is best and disgarding the useless. Ueshiba considered sincerity to be the most important characteristic of an aikidoka, and he was always open to challanges and to learning. Some things are subtle and not understood until a higher level of experience is reached, but rather than trying to explain this to someone and them not having a real physical realisation, it is better for them to understand later.

Last edited by ian : 08-11-2003 at 11:24 AM.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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