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Old 07-14-2003, 09:25 PM   #76
akiy
 
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Quote:
Louis Amberg (ewodaj) wrote:
jun, im lucky I guess...I cant say that it will happen to me or not, but its very possible given the time of day and where you are...
As I said, I don't think it's a matter of "luck" whether you get into a "street" confrontation. Most fights I've heard about from folks were choices people made to get into a physical altercation.
Quote:
you dont have to be an expert in martial arts to form an opinion about them jun...
I'd say that you can learn about a martial art through books, videos, and such. But it's a far, far cry from actually learning the art itself. As long as you understand that difference and also recognize that almost everyone else who is active here (some with over forty years of experience) understands that difference, you're welcome to share your opinions. Just don't be disappointed nor offended when people correct you through their experience and not just through your book-learning.

-- Jun

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Old 07-14-2003, 10:24 PM   #77
ewodaj
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Quote:
Jun Akiyama (akiy) wrote:
As I said, I don't think it's a matter of "luck" whether you get into a "street" confrontation. Most fights I've heard about from folks were choices people made to get into a physical altercation.



I'd say that you can learn about a martial art through books, videos, and such. But it's a far, far cry from actually learning the art itself. As long as you understand that difference and also recognize that almost everyone else who is active here (some with over forty years of experience) understands that difference, you're welcome to share your opinions. Just don't be disappointed nor offended when people correct you through their experience and not just through your book-learning.

-- Jun
well, I dont like to fight unless I have to defend myself...I never pick fights or start fights just to see how tough I am because thats idiotic...I understand jun completely jun...I should be able to share my opinions no matter what...regardless who trains in aikido here and who doesnt, we all have a right to speak our minds about aikido...im not disappointed, in fact im satisfied when people correct me when im wrong because it just makes me want to learn about aikido a little more...
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Old 07-14-2003, 10:38 PM   #78
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
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Quote:
Now I am really curious and I hope this get's through the static.
It's always so satisfying to actually get a positive reaction in these forums. It's the same feeling as I get when a technique actually works: I know that's not supposed to be the point, but it sure does feel good!

I think, though, that our worlds aren't too different. Most of the reasons that you mentioned would have ranked pretty high on my list, too. Also, maybe the philosophy-seekers I'm thinking about fall into your category of "look at various budo and chose Aikido because of philosophy" category. Still, there would be more than one or two of them.

I think Eric is right that this depends a lot on where you train. California is probably a great place for finding this. Israel isn't too bad, either, being full of 'seekers.' Here in Baltimore its a little less common, but still not rare. Seidokan gets more of this than ASU seems to.

In any case, the people I'm thinking about generally say something like, "I read a book by / about Ueshiba or I was talking to a friend about Aikido and I felt like the philosophy really spoke to me." Others (your budo category?) say they were looking at different martial arts and the philosophy of Aikido appealed to them. Some of these have previous martial arts experience, so they might better be placed in your 'budo gets more complicated' category.

All right, have I made that sufficiently muddy? Eric said it better than I did and he was saying almost the same thing.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 07-15-2003, 12:51 AM   #79
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
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I started Aikido because of a dream... not a metaphorical dream but a literal one. I was interested in doing some kind of martial art, had done lots of library research on various arts, and visited a few classes here and there. Somehow the non-resistance philosophy I had read about really grabbed some part of my mind... not the peace and harmony stuff, but the actual physics of it. One night I had a dream wherein several thugs stole a large, full toolbox of mine. I followed them up to a second story apartment, and got into it with them. They came at me and I turned and whirled and effortlessly tossed them all out the window, one by one. This was actually a significant psychological turning point in my life because when I was younger I had recurring fight dreams similar to common running away dreams in which the dreamer cannot run fast enough to get away and can only slog along slowly with extreme effort - I would get into a fight and be completely unable to hit the other person hard enough to cause damage no matter how hard I tried. Anyway, after the Aikido dream I never really had those wimpy fight dreams any more. Somehow learning about the mechanical philosophy of Aikido caused a major psychological paradigm shift that was about a lot more.

FWIW, I have never really studied Aikido primarily for 'self defense' in the sense that's being floated here. My interest in that kind of thing is more peripheral/academic. I don't expect to ever get into a fight over words, so if something happens it will likely be damn serious. In that scenario other things come into play, like firearms, knives, available objects, and the fact that I expect to go further faster than the other guy, and with more ferocity, spontaneity, and imagination. Then there's the whole issue of flow and time dilation, which is beyond the scope of this post.

The primary reason I currently practice Aikido is that I find ukemi enjoyable.
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Old 07-15-2003, 01:38 AM   #80
Bronson
 
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Louis,

As you are new to the martial arts I sincerely hope that you find one that fits you and you can stick with, hopefully aikido will be it

A small piece of advice which you may take or leave as you will; when you actually start training regularly forget all the stuff you've read about aikido and open yourself to learning and experiencing aikido.

I've seen many people come into the martial arts in the last 10 years with an impressive amount of theoretical knowledge only to leave when what was taught wasn't what was in the books or videos. These people never gave the training a chance. They missed out.

Don't get hung up on the philosophy too much. In the beginning you'll need to spend much more of your time and energy learning which foot goes where and when it's supposed to be there. Focus on the training. Do whatever is being done in class to the best of your ability with full commitment of mind, body and spirit and the rest of it will fall into place.

Just some late night ramblings from somebody who remembers being where you're at.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 07-15-2003, 03:29 AM   #81
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
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Jun:"As I said, I don't think it's a matter of "luck" whether you get into a "street" confrontation. Most fights I've heard about from folks were choices people made to get into a physical altercation"

Here, I'll have to disagree with you. Perhaps me and the people I've met just been unlucky in the extreme, but choice has not played a part in many of the experiences I've heard of. I've experienced a few "totally randomn" ones - the you're walking down the street then bam type - others have come to the dojo because of muggings etc.

If you're referring to pub fights, yes, there's normally a choice and I'm the first to admit I try and blag my way out of them as fast as possible. However, if a pub kicks off (for example, two groups of football supporters find their team philosophies incompatible), you often have no choice but to fight just to leave the place.
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Old 07-15-2003, 03:55 AM   #82
justinm
Location: Maidenhead
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Ian, maybe this is a UK vs US thing? I see you are in the UK, and yes, there is a group of people that enjoy mixing it up at the pub with others looking for the same fun. When I've mentioned this particular hobby (not mine, by the way!) to friends in the US, it seems to be a UK or European phenomenon.

General random muggings for money, race hatred and so on do seem to be common worldwide.

Interestly, we had two lads join us last week for the first time, as they had recently been mugged.

As an aside, I have felt far more nervous in the centre, busy shopping streets of San Fran or other US cities than in some undesirable parts of London, but this may be a case of the known vs unknown rather than the reality of the danger.

Justin McCarthy
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Old 07-15-2003, 11:54 AM   #83
ewodaj
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Quote:
Ian Hurst (happysod) wrote:
Jun:"As I said, I don't think it's a matter of "luck" whether you get into a "street" confrontation. Most fights I've heard about from folks were choices people made to get into a physical altercation"

Here, I'll have to disagree with you. Perhaps me and the people I've met just been unlucky in the extreme, but choice has not played a part in many of the experiences I've heard of. I've experienced a few "totally randomn" ones - the you're walking down the street then bam type - others have come to the dojo because of muggings etc.

If you're referring to pub fights, yes, there's normally a choice and I'm the first to admit I try and blag my way out of them as fast as possible. However, if a pub kicks off (for example, two groups of football supporters find their team philosophies incompatible), you often have no choice but to fight just to leave the place.
ian, sometimes it is a matter of luck...I would never go looking for trouble on the streets, usually it comes looking for most people...when someone tries to rob you, chances are it might turn into a physical altercation...if you chose to fight back against the attacker than thats your choice...I believe its a good choice at that if the odds arent stacked up against you...
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Old 07-18-2003, 01:03 PM   #84
Chuck.Gordon
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Coming in to this thread late, so I'll just answer the original question (yeah right, like I can answer anything that complex) ...

Is it wrong to learn aikido strictly for self defense?

Nope. But you're short-changing yourself. You're probably gonna miss a lot of Good stuff if that's all you're looking for.

Chuck

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