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Old 07-10-2003, 09:07 PM   #1
ewodaj
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good self-defense martial art to take up

I have read about a few martial arts im thinking about learning...aikido seems like one of the hardest martial arts to learn and master...it seems more like a spiritual art rather than self-defense and that is a good thing...I looked into american kempo, judo, kickboxing, karate, tkd, etc and all of them dont seem to interest me the way hapkido does...I want a martial art mainly for self-defense and getting into shape...im already in pretty good shape, but I want something that will help me in terms of self-defense and getting into better shape...I read about hapkido and I know it's kind of similar to aikido and judo...I think its related to them some how...can anyone tell me if they know if hapkido is effective as a self-defense tool? I believe it is because I read about it and hapkido interests me a great deal...the thing is there are no hapkido dojos around where I live and I checked and checked...anyone have any opinions on hapkido? I know it might not be fair to ask this, but is hapkido more effective than aikido in real life situations?
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Old 07-10-2003, 09:35 PM   #2
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
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Hi Louis,

You've been posting a lot of questions/comments today that seem a little trollish. I'm sure that's not true, but it would cool if you introduced yourself, told a little more about you so people won't get the wrong impression.

Charles Hill
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Old 07-10-2003, 10:09 PM   #3
PhilJ
 
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For fitness, I usually considered muay thai or even vigorous kung fu. I never stuck with either because the philosophies were so contrary to my own, but I still found them to be quite entertaining and physical.

Of course, nothing screams fitness like a good randori/jiyuwaza (random attacks) class in aikido.

*Phil

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
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Old 07-10-2003, 10:10 PM   #4
ewodaj
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Quote:
Charles Hill wrote:
Hi Louis,

You've been posting a lot of questions/comments today that seem a little trollish. I'm sure that's not true, but it would cool if you introduced yourself, told a little more about you so people won't get the wrong impression.

Charles Hill
I have no martial arts training...im real picky when it comes to an art...one minute ill be interested in one art and the next I want to learn another...ive been doing a lot of research on different martial arts and the 2 that im most interested in are hapkido and aikido...since aikido is an harder martial art to master and it takes many years for you to really feel comfortable with the techniques used in aikido I feel that it might not necessarily be the martial art I want to deal with...hapkido is more to my liking and I really want to learn it, but they arent any hapkido dojos where I live...I want to take up martial arts for a few reasons and some of the reasons are:

im a skinny guy with not a lot of strength...martial arts will hopefully make me become a stronger person mentally and physically...I want to learn to defend myself just in case a dangerous situation arises and I want to be ready...I dont want to sound selfish and egotistical by saying I just want to learn martial arts for self-defense reasons, but its a real crazy world out there and I feel that I dont want to be a casualty of the streets...martial arts will make me a better person I believe...
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Old 07-10-2003, 11:48 PM   #5
Kyri Honigh
Dojo: Aikido Curacao
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Nice..yet I fail to see why Aikido would be LESS effective than Hapkido.Roughly put hapkido is a hybrid of aikijutsu and the korean kicking arts.Maybe you should stop thinking in terms of wich is best and really train.I hate the theorethical types when it comes down to martial arts.You'll never become stronger without proper training.And remember that every martial art out there will make you a better fighter and person if you just put enough effort in it.

Oh yea its a crazy world out there all right, but you do try to avoid the crazy places right??

Bottomline: Train well covering all facets of self defense.Strategy, technique and fitness.Your situation will never improve by sitting behind your monitor
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Old 07-11-2003, 03:10 AM   #6
Clayton Drescher
 
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Well Louis,

I got my 9th Kub in hapkido in May after about 4 months of training...so I'm no expert, but the course (I took it as a PE course at the University of Texas) was entitled Self-Defense/Hapkido. Our instructor, a 10th Dan in hapkido, called the forms we learned "self-defence" technique 1, 2, etc. Hapkido is very similar to aikido in many ways, I believe it was developed by a Korean gentleman who spent some time training in Japan earlier in the 20th century. It also has certain Korean aspects, punches and kicks, and was much more sharp, short, and "brutal" feeling....in my opinion as a hapkido-turned-aikido newbie. A sensei at my dojo teaches a style of aikido which felt very similar to the hapkido escapes and pins i learned in aikido so I think there is definitely some crossover. In hapkido you will definitely learn more strikes than you ever would in aikido which might be more "useful" in a self-defense situation.

My personal opinion is that after taking these two martial arts for the past 7 months or so I feel much more confident in a self-defense-type situation just because I now have a much much better notion of how to move MY body in relation with an attacker's even if I may not be able to remember any complex techniques off-hand....nobody can hang on to my wrist or bear hug me from behind that I don't want to anymore. I may not be able to do much more beyond get out of that position and throw a kick their way, but that's 100times better than struggling and not getting away.

Good luck finding a hapkido dojo, I know a good one in Austin if you're interested

Clayton
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Old 07-11-2003, 05:17 AM   #7
Ian Heap
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Question Whice one, Which one

Blimey Louis,

I'm from the UK so cannot really tell you which Dojo to try to train at, but I , like you have thought long and hard about which martial arts to take up. I Have a little background in Karate, (the usual thing to do as a kid growing up) and also checked out a couple of kickboxing classes. As Kyri Honigh (earlier on this forum) said, maybe you shoudl just go train. As far as Keeping fit, most aiki classes give you a fiarly good work out in so far as you are moving around a lot. I trained in aik jujutsu and found it to be a good work out, although we didn't go for full out ROUNDS and Sparring, just doing the techniques , and as Philip Johnson said, after a couple of random attacks you get a pretty good work out, also if you are doing a technique that leads you to be doing break falls, just getting back up can become a work out in itself!! So basically, try one and see if it likes you! Aikido, as you have said, does look to be a hard art to learn, aiki jujutsu ios very similar in that respect. A bit like driving, once you have passed your driving test, then you really start to learn.(do you get what i mean?) Anyway, best of look searching for an art.!IAN
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Old 07-11-2003, 06:28 AM   #8
Paul Klembeck
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If you want to defend yourself, go to RMCAT or a Fastdefense seminar (or whatever your area has that is equivalent). One weekend, 98% of realistic self defense needs, done.

For fitness, join a gym. Much more effective than any martial art, as they are directly pointed at that goal.

Do a martial art only if it is interesting for its own sake. If aikido is what you find interesting, great, otherwise do something else.

Paul
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Old 07-11-2003, 08:57 AM   #9
SeiserL
 
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IMHO, it is not the style but the practicioner that make a martial art effective in self-defense. Study what is available and you are drawn to. They all have their positives and their negatives.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 07-11-2003, 09:02 AM   #10
Mark Williams
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Louis, nice question.

It depends what you're looking for. Hapkido is (very) basically a mixture of Aikido and Taekwondo. For that reason it is taught very differently depending on where you learn. Some schools follow the kicking and striking path, some follow the locks and throws path, and some try to get a bit of both. It's an interesting martial art, but schools are difficult to come by.

If you want a martial art where you will get fit and flexible, then you can't go wrong with Taekwondo. However, my experience of Taekwondo and Karate (about three years in each) is that they are not particularly practical if you have to use them in a street situation. The fancy kicks from Taekwondo are fantastic to watch, but it's a little difficult to kich someone in the head when they are standing three inches from you. However, if you want to build up your strength, flexibility and fitness then they are great.

If you are looking for a martial art that will be effective on the street, then you would probably be best to consider Jujitsu, Judo or boxing. Aikido is also very effective, but you need to be able to agree with the philosophy behind it.

Whichever martial art you choose, you will find that the greatest thing you will learn is confidence and respect for others. When I go out with my Aiki friends we are the least agressive people in town, but we also have the knowledge that we could easily go into any bar and throw everyone out of the window. You'll find that when you are confident in your ability you will no longer have a desire to try to prove yourself to anyone. That's the greatest benefit.

What an interesting opinion, do you mind if I move into your cave?
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Old 07-11-2003, 09:20 AM   #11
Michael Neal
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If you want to learn how to defend yourself in is quicker way than learning Aikido I would try judo or BJJ. Or why not take Aikido and another martial art to round out your skills.
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Old 07-11-2003, 09:42 AM   #12
jvadakin
Dojo: Aikikai Foundation of Delaware
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Re: good self-defense martial art to take up

Hi, Louis. I just began studying Aikido in the last two months, so I can sympathize with your effort to find a martial art! I also tend to be very academic about everything I do, and like you I shopped around a bit before joining a dojo. I assume from the fact that you posted here that there is an Aikido dojo in your area, but there is no Hapkido. Well, unless you're going to move, you might as well forget about Hapkido! I'll tell you about my experiences so far in Aikido. I train 3-4 days a week for one hour per day. I have finally (6 years later) lost my "freshman 15" pounds! I also feel much more energetic so that I have been able to start weight lifting. In terms of self- defense, I think it will be awhile (probably a few years) before I could really apply Aikido techniques effectively "on the street." But, you know, time passes anyway and I'm not preparing for a showdown or anything. I'm happy I joined an Aikido dojo but everyone is different. I would, however, warn you that even basic Aikdio techniques require a greater degree of coordination than basic karate or taekwondo techniques. Good luck and I hope you find something that works for you.
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Old 07-11-2003, 11:07 AM   #13
C. Emerson
Dojo: Emerson's Martial Arts
Location: Denver, Co
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I fairly easy, Hapkido address's all ranges of fighting. It is very effective. Judo BJJ Do not address all ranges of fighting. I have preached this for years, on most ground controls in judo or BJJ. If I can find your eyes or groin or even bite you, You will be letting go of me. Thats the one thing that MMA does not show, and It shouldn't either.

If your style does not prepare you for striking the clinch and the ground, then your not prepared. Thats the real world. Hapkido address's those.

Alright, let em fly!

Chad
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Old 07-11-2003, 11:15 AM   #14
Sharon Seymour
Dojo: AikidoKIDS! & Katsujinken Dojo, Prescott Arizona
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I agree with Paul.

If you want to learn self-defense, choose a street self defense program such as RMCAT. For getting in shape, join a gym.

To use martial arts study for self-defense or conditioning training is to throw away 98% of their benefit.

Just read a little epigram in the book Living the Martial Way -- "there are no superior martial arts, just superior martial artists."

-----
There is more to balance than not falling over.
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Old 07-11-2003, 11:43 AM   #15
Larry Feldman
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You might base your decision on the quality of Hapkido and Aikido schools/teachers in your vicinity. Do you really have a choice?
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Old 07-11-2003, 11:47 AM   #16
bob_stra
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Re: good self-defense martial art to take up

If I had to choose one art, readily available, for SD purposes I'd choose either boxing or judo. (MMA as an outside bet)

That would cover the physical aspect. The rest can be gleaned here -

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

BTW - you realize you intermixed aikido with hapkido in your post? Not the same thing IIRC. As for which of the two is better....
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Old 07-11-2003, 11:52 AM   #17
ewodaj
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Quote:
Kyri Honigh wrote:
Nice..yet I fail to see why Aikido would be LESS effective than Hapkido.Roughly put hapkido is a hybrid of aikijutsu and the korean kicking arts.Maybe you should stop thinking in terms of wich is best and really train.I hate the theorethical types when it comes down to martial arts.You'll never become stronger without proper training.And remember that every martial art out there will make you a better fighter and person if you just put enough effort in it.

Oh yea its a crazy world out there all right, but you do try to avoid the crazy places right??

Bottomline: Train well covering all facets of self defense.Strategy, technique and fitness.Your situation will never improve by sitting behind your monitor
why are you being a smartass? im just asking some questions...you hate theorethical types? im not just going to pick any martial arts to learn...I want to learn an art that im interested in...like I said. there are absolutely no hapkido dojos where I live, so im at a loss...doesnt aikido tell you to treat people with kindness? please, no more smartass responses...I just want information and I know some of you study aikido...
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Old 07-11-2003, 11:56 AM   #18
ewodaj
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Quote:
Chad Emerson (C. Emerson) wrote:
I fairly easy, Hapkido address's all ranges of fighting. It is very effective. Judo BJJ Do not address all ranges of fighting. I have preached this for years, on most ground controls in judo or BJJ. If I can find your eyes or groin or even bite you, You will be letting go of me. Thats the one thing that MMA does not show, and It shouldn't either.

If your style does not prepare you for striking the clinch and the ground, then your not prepared. Thats the real world. Hapkido address's those.

Alright, let em fly!

Chad
I heard hapkido is good for real life situations chad...what martial arts have you trained in chad? what are the differences between hapkido and aikido? I know hapkido is a korean art and aikido is a japanese art, but what are the similarities/differences between the 2 arts?
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Old 07-11-2003, 11:57 AM   #19
bob_stra
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Quote:
Chad Emerson (C. Emerson) wrote:
I fairly easy, Hapkido address's all ranges of fighting. It is very effective. Judo BJJ Do not address all ranges of fighting. I have preached this for years, on most ground controls in judo or BJJ. If I can find your eyes or groin or even bite you, You will be letting go of me.
;-)

Is that before or after I pound you into a bloody pulp and twist all your limbs off?

Seriously, ppl keep going on and on abt these dirty techniques, but grapplers are some of the most sadistic SOB in the arts. They know way to hurt you you ain't never even though of! Ever been held down (by your armpit hairs) while a guy grabbed your family jewels and ground his unshaven chin into your eye socket? Welcome to grappling ;-)

Also, the whole "get a superior position, immobilize, control" thing kinda works against ya ;-)
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:24 PM   #20
C. Emerson
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O.k, I will do the right thing and step down. I'm not going to battle with anyones ego. It was my opinion and my experience. All I was stating was that there are alot of ranges and one needs to be proficient. Are we debating that?

Shurely grappling arts are effective. But they don't focus on all areas. Ala BJJ and Judo. BTW Hapkido is as proficient with Jointlocking as any MA. So your coment about twisting joints off. Do you think that BJJ and Judo are the only arts that understand the mechanics of locks and throws.

Shurely wasn't trying to invoke that response.

Btw, Why do all of the MMA cross train in all of the Ranges. Why do the BJJ, wrestling and Judo fighters learn striking? It is because they need to supplement there training.

Hapkido is not the best martial art out there, it is only one of many. Although it focus's on all ranges.

Thats the fact Jack!

Chad
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:26 PM   #21
C. Emerson
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BOB WROTE:

Also, the whole "get a superior position, immobilize, control" thing kinda works against ya ;-)

I think it is- CONTROL POSITION SUBMISSION.
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:34 PM   #22
Michael Neal
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I honestly do not believe that hapkido would have a chance grappling against a wrestler, judoka, or BJJ. So even though it focuses on more ranges it is rather weak at most of those ranges. Also, its striking is based on TKD which, in my view, is one of the weaker striking arts.

And as far as the joint locks etc, I think Aikido is more suitable than Hapkido. Hapkido's strentgh may be that it has alot of ranges but I dont think it is particularly strong in any of them.

Last edited by Michael Neal : 07-11-2003 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:36 PM   #23
C. Emerson
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No argument here about the grappling, the TKD part is not entirley true. It depends on the style of Hapkido. There are different styles, which incorporate different striking.
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Old 07-11-2003, 12:48 PM   #24
C. Emerson
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Make no mistake about it, running into a Hapkido expert would rank right up there with any other lethal weapon from another style. They are dangerous, there knowledge and ability has great depth. I agree, in a BJJ sport match, A Aikido and Hapkido and what ever else would probably lose terribly. It's not there expertise.

I encourage people to learn more about this art.

The comment about weaker in some areas. Maybe yes and maybe no. I we are talking about being able to do all of the Kodokan Judo throws perfectly. No Other styles are not going to be as good at Judo as a Judomplayer would be. Although, If you look at MMA They only use a handful of techniques from all styles. Grappling or striking. It is a percentage game. WEhich techniques have they highest percentage of working. So when you look at what really does work. It is only a handful of techniques.

I believe in a real fight, you can throw out about 70-80 percent of your curriculum. And focus on the basics, or bread and butter. The techniques that are tried and true. The ones you have the greatest confidence in. Not that the other techniques would not work. Some just work better than others.
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Old 07-11-2003, 01:35 PM   #25
MikeE
 
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Chad,

Obviously Hapkido is the art you've chosen. So, it stands to reason it is the "best art there is" for you. You wouldn't train in the 2nd or 3rd best art you came across would you?

That being said... My personal experiences with Hapkido left me cold. I wasn't overly impressed. But, that's just my opinion. I'm sure there are some fantastic Hapkido people out there (i.e. the scary lethal weapon type). But, as far as I'm concerned if I wanted that I would learn to drink and drive. I can be twice as scary and lethal.

Finally: Aikido is an amazing art for self-defense/self-protection.

Mike Ellefson
Midwest Center
For Movement &
Aikido Bukou
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