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Old 06-30-2003, 05:42 PM   #26
kironin
 
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Quote:
Charles Hill wrote:
Craig,

What has Steven Seagal said about Aikido in public?

Charles
Quite a lot actually.

He has given many interviews in the past 15-20 years. Go do some research. I am not really interested enough in the subject now as I might have been in the mid-90's to spend the time on it especially since I have long since thrown the magazines away.

Craig
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Old 06-30-2003, 05:52 PM   #27
kironin
 
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Talking

Quote:
Ken Sparrow (kensparrow) wrote:
I was flipping the channel the other night and happened to catch his second movie ("Marked for Death?") right at the only good aikido scene (which saved me from having to sit through more than 5 minutes of it!). I did see gokyo, shihonage, koshinage, sankyo and nikkyo though. It also made me very glad I'm not a drug dealing Rastafarian with a machete.
if Marked for Death is the one with the blade wielding Rastafarian twin drug lords, then that's the only other one besides Above the Law that I recall with any significant amount of aikido including a 2-3 man grab attacks and randori.

After that one, it's downhill from there. At least if your looking for aikido.

Craig
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Old 06-30-2003, 10:07 PM   #28
C. Emerson
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Exit wounds, I thought it was a great movie. I loved it.

-Chad
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Old 06-30-2003, 10:56 PM   #29
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Loved him in Executive Decision

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 07-01-2003, 11:34 PM   #30
C. Emerson
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Ahhhhhhhhhh?
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Old 07-02-2003, 12:58 PM   #31
Don_Modesto
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Quote:
Bronson Diffin (Bronson) wrote:
Loved him in Executive Decision
back at you. I agree. The shorter, the better.

Don J. Modesto
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Old 07-02-2003, 03:11 PM   #32
Kevin Wilbanks
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I just saw John Leguizamo (sp?) on Conan O'Brien telling an anecdote about when he worked on that film. Apparently, Seagal needed a lot of handholding and reassurance to even come out of the trailer to do his death scene... there were questions about whether he had actually read the script. JL expressly avoided using his name for legal purposes, but it was pretty obvious who he was talking about. You hear so many stories like this, it's hard not to wonder if they're true. I suppose it's possible that it's actually some kind of scapegoating group behavior, but the odds seem against it.
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Old 07-02-2003, 04:12 PM   #33
Charles Hill
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How about the idea the some of the criticism Steven Seagal has received as an Aikidoka (to put aside the movies stuff just a bit) is racially motivated, i.e. his not being Japanese?

Also, in response to Craig's suggestion that I "Go do some research." I did. My memory from the early to mid 90's was that SS didn't talk much about Aikido specifically in interviews. I also remember the editors of ATM writing that SS's public relations department had told them that he didn't want to talk about Aikido and that he was trying to distance himself from it.

I checked around on the internet thinking that I may have missed something but I didn't find any general article or interview that mentioned only Aikido. If they mentioned it, it was only in conjuntion with karate, judo, and kendo.

BTW, I'm a big Yes fan, so Trevor Rabin's wonderful music in Glimmer Man, makes that movie my favorite.

Charles
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Old 07-03-2003, 09:41 PM   #34
mikeyuke
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uh oh!!

posts with steven seagal are sure to be lively.The name itself is synonymous with controverse.

my 2cents worth.

-his movies-could be better,but the budget has to be also,give SS a 150 million dollar budget for a movie and it will certainly kick ass...

- his Aikido,speaks for itself.

Am mostly a lurker on the forums and seldom post,but I had to mention this:

Having tried several styles of aiki and also tried Tenshin,alot of styles have variations and were refined over the years and some have been refined too much in my opinion that they now look like ballet,it's almost ridiculous,looking over the forms and movements you can easily predict the next move, its almost Kata....god.

Tenshin is very direct and a pure style of aiki,it is severe and some have gotten hurt doing it,the movements are followed through to the very end,in my opinion yes it looks like jujutsu but then hey,daito ryu jutsu is the mother of Aikido.

SS simply developed a style which brings aikido back to its very begining,the way it should be.

ciao all.
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Old 07-06-2003, 12:37 AM   #35
Kyri Honigh
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Hey Mark sup? I believe too that Tenshin Aikido is a very nice interpretation of Aikido.But what I don't agree with is that you said that Tenshin Aikido is Aikido the way it SHOULD be. I hope you don't mean that for instance the round movements favored by many aikikai instructors is incorrect or useless.I think both styles have their advantages. Jujutsu is born from sumo, yet they are very different, so Aikido could also be very different from Daito Ryu.
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Old 07-06-2003, 11:01 AM   #36
C. Emerson
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Kyri Honigh

Username: Kyri Honigh

Today 06:37 AM

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Local Time: 02:45 PM

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Jujutsu is born from sumo? It was? How so?
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Old 07-06-2003, 09:03 PM   #37
mikeyuke
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Hi Kyri

I agree with you also,it came out wrong the way I said it,but yes definately.

All styles of Aikido are Aikido,just some are more refined than others and also some are more basic than others,the round circular movements(harmony) are always there.

Daito is the begining of aikido.

You must remember that this art was practised by warriors and the movements were done fully to the end.Warriors were then fighting for families,villages,religion and so forth,daito was much more a fighting art,basic movements but with devastating results.Deaths,fractures so forth.

Aikido was refined from that.

Aikido is much less brutal than Daito.

It has to be,times have changed,unless you plan on lawsuits.hihihi.

Hey how are the reefs in Curacao?
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Old 07-06-2003, 10:49 PM   #38
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Mark Martin (jazzyuke) wrote:
All styles of Aikido are Aikido,just some are more refined than others and also some are more basic than others,the round circular movements(harmony) are always there.

Daito is the begining of aikido.

You must remember that this art was practised by warriors and the movements were done fully to the end.Warriors were then fighting for families,villages,religion and so forth,daito was much more a fighting art,basic movements but with devastating results.Deaths,fractures so forth.

Aikido was refined from that.

Aikido is much less brutal than Daito.
I think Mark that your information on both Aikido and Daito Ryu is flawed. Things are rarely so simple.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 07-07-2003, 03:20 PM   #39
mikeyuke
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hey Pete

right you are,things are rarely that simple.

One could write a series of novels on the subject,and still be off.

As are some of the novels on sale today.

Point is: forums are for interpretations and personal opinions.

They might very well all be wrong.

cheers
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Old 07-07-2003, 03:48 PM   #40
deepsoup
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Quote:
Mark Martin (jazzyuke) wrote:
hey Pete

Point is: forums are for interpretations and personal opinions.

They might very well all be wrong.

cheers
True enough, though if you read a while, and maybe dabble in a search or two, you'll find there are some posters on this forum who're very much better informed than others.

Sean

x
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Old 07-08-2003, 03:02 AM   #41
kironin
 
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Quote:
Mark Martin (jazzyuke) wrote:
Aikido is much less brutal than Daito.
I think it would be more accurate to say that Aikido chooses to be less brutal than Daito.

Kondo Sensei is pretty careful to have people practice safely because of the choices made. It's very much more like weapons kata and there are many moves that you cannot follow through on because you will break your partner so you have to give them an escape, one safe spot to go - just like aikido.

It's not hard to make Aikido brutal as demonstrated by the direction SS went with his Tenshin schoo and I think Ellis Amdur would attest to. You simply take away the safe spot and give them no out but to break them.

You may think some of us are just dancing around but you might be surprised how many ways there are to break you hidden in that dance.

SS approach is hardly a step forward or return to the original, or saving aikido realism. It's just his take on aikido.

Craig
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Old 07-08-2003, 11:44 AM   #42
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http://www.aikiwest.com/allvideos.htm

some Seagal videos I haven't seen before...

(and not a few K. Ueshiba too...)
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Old 07-08-2003, 11:48 PM   #43
MikeE
 
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Craig, I agree wholeheartedly.

IMHO, Aikido is an art for living in the present, not an art of being the one who walks off the battlefield. But, this distinction is by choice.

I think that there is a certain level that is attained in Aikido where (when attacked) you can choose to be benevolent or be destructive (Satsujin no Ken - Katsujin no Ken). What we do with that ability is what defines us.

Where Seagal Sensei's aikido falls in this equation is probably defined by the situation he is in (just like mine...or anyone elses).

I personally think he does a great job, not the way I train personally, but, his Aikido is a fine representation in my eyes.

Mike Ellefson
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Old 07-10-2003, 07:44 PM   #44
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I respect steven seagal a great deal as a person and more so as a martial artist...I believe he is the real deal and hes the best martial artist that ive seen in movies...I admire and respect him a great deal and I am amazed at the way he does aikido and it makes people like me want to get into it just because he does it...I believe steven seagal definitely deserves the term as a great martial artist because he has earned it...you have to give him a tremendous amount of credit for being the first westerner to open up a dojo in japan...I dont care if he has an ego problem because we all go thru that some time in our lives...when it comes to martial arts, he never disappoints...
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Old 07-10-2003, 08:04 PM   #45
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Louis - the problem with Seagal is that the press doesn't always match the reality.

He was not the first Westerner to open a dojo in Japan and in fact he did not open a dojo. He married a lady and when her father died he became the Head Instructor of a family owned dojo.

Don't believe everyting you hear from Holywood or see in movies.

That said - you can't deny the time he's put in to Aikido. I sure wont dismiss him that easily.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 07-10-2003, 08:48 PM   #46
ewodaj
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Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
Louis - the problem with Seagal is that the press doesn't always match the reality.

He was not the first Westerner to open a dojo in Japan and in fact he did not open a dojo. He married a lady and when her father died he became the Head Instructor of a family owned dojo.

Don't believe everyting you hear from Holywood or see in movies.

That said - you can't deny the time he's put in to Aikido. I sure wont dismiss him that easily.
run a dojo I mean...theres no reasons why seagal would lie I think because sooner or later the truth would come out and haunt him...I dont think hes been involved with the cia tho, but I guess he only truly knows if he was or not...we can only speculate to know what is the truth and what is made up stuff...all it comes down to is steven seagal a good martial artist? the answer is yes and that is all I need to know...he taught the japanese and that is something everyone should respect whether you like seagal or not...it must have been culture shock for seagal over there in japan and to apapt to the language and the customs, must have been some hardship for him, so you gotta respect the man for that...how many westerners do you know that taught the japanese aikido in japan?

Last edited by ewodaj : 07-10-2003 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 07-10-2003, 09:07 PM   #47
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Quote:
Louis Amberg (ewodaj) wrote:
how many westerners do you know that taught the japanese aikido in japan?
You are talking to one - no big deal.

I don't think he was the first to run a dojo either. The thing is his distortions are coming back to haunt him.

Last edited by PeterR : 07-10-2003 at 09:12 PM.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 07-10-2003, 09:11 PM   #48
ewodaj
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Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
You are talking to one - no big deal.
well, I think it is a big deal considering not many people have done it...to teach a culture that you know nothing about at first and them wanting to get taught by you is an amazing feat and accomplishment and that is the ultimate compliment any martial artist would be proud of...
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Old 07-10-2003, 09:21 PM   #49
Charles Hill
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[QUOTE ]well, I think it is a big deal considering not many people have done it...to teach a culture that you know nothing about at first and them wanting to get taught by you is an amazing feat and accomplishment and that is the ultimate compliment any martial artist would be proud of...[/quote]
I agree with Louis, Peter. It's pretty cool what you are doing.

Charles Hill
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Old 07-11-2003, 02:47 PM   #50
Don_Modesto
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Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
He was not the first Westerner to open a dojo in
Who was?

Thanks.

Don J. Modesto
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