Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-24-2003, 03:18 PM   #1
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
Sword training

Question for the group...

Do you think doing swordwork should be done first before learning the empty handed techniques in aikido? Any thoughts?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2003, 05:23 PM   #2
Steven
 
Steven's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 602
United_States
Offline
Hi Eric,

Nice logo!

As a company man, I would say sword work is not necessary because our kihon dosa, when practiced correctly and dailey, serves the same purpose. (you should be doing kihon as you read this ... chop chop ... get to it)

On the other side, I have students give us an honest try and say that the structure is too much and they would prefer a not so regimented way of learning. So I point them in the direction of other schools.

Then again, I've seen some schools that teach basics with the sword and look awesome, yet others who have no idea what the sword is for.

I don't think think the sword work is necessary before the open hand, but that's just me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2003, 06:12 PM   #3
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,058
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Steven Miranda (Steven) wrote:
Hi Eric,

Nice logo!

As a company man, I would say sword work is not necessary because our kihon dosa, when practiced correctly and dailey, serves the same purpose. (you should be doing kihon as you read this ... chop chop ... get to it)
Interestingly, Shioda didn't do so well on the sword section of his 9th dan test with M. Ueshiba, but he did so well on the empty-hand section that he got the 9th dan anyway - on the condition that he'd work on his sword more .
Quote:
Steven Miranda (Steven) wrote:
I don't think think the sword work is necessary before the open hand, but that's just me.
I've seen pretty good results both ways, different people learn in different ways. What it comes down to, I think, is that you have to do everything eventually, but the optimum order of the curriculum varies from one person to the next.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2003, 07:08 PM   #4
Steven
 
Steven's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 602
United_States
Offline
"I've seen pretty good results both ways, different people learn in different ways."

Agreed!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2003, 07:15 PM   #5
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,033
Japan
Online
Quote:
Christopher Li (Chris Li) wrote:
Interestingly, Shioda didn't do so well on the sword section of his 9th dan test with M. Ueshiba, but he did so well on the empty-hand section that he got the 9th dan anyway - on the condition that he'd work on his sword more .
There was a ninth dan test?

Was this common, in relation to the number of 9th Dans of course.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2003, 08:25 PM   #6
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,058
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
There was a ninth dan test?

Was this common, in relation to the number of 9th Dans of course.
It was in "Aikido Shugyo", and appears to have been quite simple. Roughly, it goes like this (off the top of my head, so I may be misremembering some minor points):

The first part of the test was sword. They both (Ueshiba and Shioda) picked up bokuto and Ueshiba said "OK, come get me". Unfortunately, whatever Shioda tried, he was unable to find an opening, so they give up after a while. The empty hand part seems to have been along the same lines, but Shioda found an opening that time. However, just as he started to move into it Ueshiba stopped the test (the assumption being that finding the opportunity was enough).

Ueshiba's comments were that his sword work wasn't really up to snuff yet, but that his empty hand was really something, so he would give him the 9th dan if he'd promise to work more on his sword work.

Haven't heard about any other 9th dan tests (anybody else?) - this one took place in Iwama after the war.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2003, 10:43 PM   #7
shadow
Dojo: Aiki Kun Ren (Iwama style)
Location: Sydney
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 166
Offline
we do sword and jo as a complement to our open hand. one hour weapons, one hour taijitsu for every training day.

bokken training gives you a strong connected grip and also teaches you many fundamentals in the way the hip moves and the body moves. seeing as pretty much all of the techniques came from weapons techniques or weapons taking techniques i would consider studying aikido without the aiki-weapons aspect only studying one half of the art. sure you can reach an incredible level but your understanding will always be limited to some degree.

happiness. harmony. compassion.
--damien--
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2003, 01:28 AM   #8
JJF
 
JJF's Avatar
Dojo: Vestfyn Aikikai Denmark
Location: Vissenbjerg
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 780
Denmark
Offline
I don't know about all the different styles of aikido, but according to Nishio sensei, aikido (the way he does it) requires that you learn the way of the sword. I believe that the way we do it, where it's an integrated part of training with both aiki-toho (iaido) practice and paired practice (ken-tai-ken, ken-tai-jo) is a good way to develop your aikido along side developing your weapons skills.

To answer the question: I Don't think learning the sword-way first is better than doing both at the same time. In the end it's a matter of time spend and your learning capability. As someone said above - you have to get around to every part of the curriculum eventually.

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2003, 09:52 AM   #9
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
Hey Steve,

I am on the kihon dosa my man. Talked to Mike and I am meeting him Saturday. Thanks, I like the logo too As for the sword training, I have incorporated it into my kihon dosa renzoku and I have noticed a difference in my technique (especially when doing shiho nage) but thats just me. I do both empty hand and bokken so that I get a good feel for both. Thanks for the responses.

Eric Joyce
Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2003, 12:10 PM   #10
Steven
 
Steven's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 602
United_States
Offline
Hi Eric,

I suddenly have this image of you and Mike pounding the heck out of each other at his dojo. DANG I wish I could be there to join in the fun.

As for the bokken work. I think most the bokken work you see in Yoshinkan here in the US came from Kushida Sensei. I too work with bokken while doing kihon dosa renzoku.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Beginners Retention Rates akiy Teaching 45 04-05-2006 11:13 PM
The Nage/Uke Dynamic - Guidelines senshincenter General 47 02-20-2006 05:20 PM
Training iai as a part of aikido Stefaan Six General 4 07-27-2005 06:20 PM
How many practice Rokkyo? ChrisHein Techniques 87 05-13-2005 09:49 AM
Osensei and Duels Michael Cardwell General 42 08-20-2004 02:28 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:48 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate