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Old 07-23-2003, 11:00 AM   #26
malc anderson
Location: coventry
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 28
If you want enlightenment, spiritual riches and emptyness, you must be friends with a teacher. Talking about it, reading books and doing practices won't help. Soul receives from Soul THAT KNOWING". Rumi

"Whoever enters the way without a guide will take 100yrs to travel a 2 day journey.

Who ever under takes a profession without a master becomes a laughing stock of city and town". Rumi

"My teachings are easy to understand and easy to put into practice. yet your intellect will never grasp them and if you try you will fail". Loa tzu

"Perfect is the man who knows what comes from heaven and what comes from man.

knowing what comes from heaven he is in tune with heaven , knowing what comes from man he uses his knowledge of the known to develop his knowledge of the unknown and enjoys the fullness of life until his natural death . This is the PERFECTION OF KNOWLEDGE.

However there is a difficulty, knowledge must be based on something but one is not certain what this maybe. how indeed do I know that what I call heaven is not actually man and what I call man is not actually heaven?

First there must be a True Man, then there can be True Knowledge ". Chuang tzu

I think Aikido is beautiful and benefical to us, but Enlightenment is much more.

I just thought I would bring some words of past GREAT MASTERS to focus our debate as we all seem to be guessing. Personally I have been following a teacher of self knowledge for 29yrs and have learned that I couldn't of got anywhere with out him as this world is an illusion , a Dream and this is all I have ever known. Look for a teacher who will guide you in a one to one relationship, if he/she says read this book, listen to some whale music , stand on your head ,chant some mystical words, etc, etc he/she is not the great master . The great master will SHOW you the way. I am sure you wouldn't tell some one new to Aikido, "Oh just read this book on Aikido you won't need a teacher", so how can something that is more important than any M/Art be approached without any real respect! Satori or whatever you want to call it will take a great deal of effort , more effort than anything you have ever done before! It is not a level of achievement that is aquired but is a conscious awareness that must be practiced every moment of your waking hours,

This is how difficult it will be! It's not impossible and you may struggle at times but your teacher will help you . Keep looking for that master who can take you there. Its only your ego that says," I can do this on my own". I could talk about this topic all day but I'll just leave you with another Masters quote.

It is the mercy of my true teacher that has made me to know the unknown;

I have learned from Him how to walk without feet, to see without eyes, to hear without ears, to drink without mouth, to fly without wings;

I have brought my love and my meditation into the land where there is no sun and moon, nor day and night.

Without eating, I have tasted of the sweetness of nectar; and without water, I have quenched my thirst.

Where there is the response of delight, there is the fullness of joy. Before whom can that joy be uttered?

Kabīr says: "The master is great beyond words, and great is the good fortune of the disciple." Kabir

Masakatsu Agatsu !
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Old 07-26-2003, 10:13 AM   #27
Anders Bjonback
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Location: Boulder, CO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 129
In The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, Sogyal Rinpoche talks about the importance of a master and transmission. But there are also people who came to great spiritual understanding on their own, because they did not have the benifit of a spiritual teacher. Although, of course, such a path may be less reliable because you do not have the help of an accomplished person to point the way.

Some teachers will tell you to read "this or that book"--not as a replacement for their own teaching, of course, but because they may recognize that it will help you. Sogyal Rinpoche (sorry, he's really all I am experienced with, so he's all the examples I can give), after my first retreat with him, told his students to read certain chapters of The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying. He also said at another time that he would like his students to read The Words of My Perfect Teacher seven times. Although he uses the pith instruction method of teaching, study is still counted as important, although with the guidance of a teacher.

I do not have the benifit of a one-on-one relationship with my spiritual master. Unless I go on retreat and see him in person among hundreds of other people, I will only see him on a television screen, giving teachings. This can be looked upon as impersonal, yet it does not feel so. From the moment I first saw one of his teachings, I felt that what he was saying aloud was what I had believed all my life. When I'm inspired, when I let go of my uncertainty as to whether I will stay with this lineage or not, it doesn't feel impersonal at all.

I'm not aruguing with you, just pointing out another view, from someone who does not have the benifit of having a one-on-one relationship with his teacher, yet does not feel any less fortunate.

"For peace and happiness are presences, not objects we can grasp and hold onto."
--Lilian Smith
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