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Old 06-08-2003, 12:01 AM   #1
AikiWeb System
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AikiWeb Poll for the week of June 8, 2003:

If you didn't block an atemi from your teacher, would your teacher hit you?
  • I don't do aikido
  • We don't use atemi at all
  • Always
  • Almost always
  • Very often
  • Often
  • Somewhat often
  • Seldom
  • Almost never
  • Never
Here are the current results.
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Old 06-08-2003, 04:36 AM   #2
Tim Griffiths
Dojo: Nes Ziona Aikikai
Location: Suzhou, China
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 188
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I voted "almost always".

I don't teach much this way, and don't necessarily agree with it. However, it does seem to be the fastest and surest way to teach students to protect themselves.

There are plenty of techniques where uke's response to an atemi leads into the technique. If uke doesn't deflect or avoid the atemi, the technique becomes much shorter (for example, katadori ikkyo). Without a sincere atemi ( =sincere block by uke ), the whole logic of the technique falls apart.

Tim

If one makes a distinction between the dojo and the battlefield, or being in your bedroom or in public, then when the time comes there will be no opportunity to make amends. (Hagakure)
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Old 06-08-2003, 08:42 AM   #3
Chuck Clark
 
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Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
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In our training, we don't use "blocks". Instead, we parry ... and as part of the parry, we move the target so that if the parry misses, the target is not there. The really important part is being able to move your feet/body instead of thinking that your hands will get you out of trouble.

Of course it takes awhile for this to get to the point where students can work at full speed and power.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 06-08-2003, 09:37 AM   #4
aikido_fudoshin
Join Date: May 2002
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It is important that uke delivers a committed attack, otherwise no one is learning anything. This goes for all grabs, holds, and strikes. With regards to the question I chose "always" assuming we are talking about senior students. Its a different story when it comes to beginners. It would not be good for the survival of the dojo if sensei went around knocking out juniors.
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Old 06-08-2003, 10:29 AM   #5
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Join Date: Dec 2001
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I was to a seminar the other weekend. The instructor reprimanded students who blocked atemi. "In aikido, we work with distance. If you block, it becomes less interesting." In his case, I suppose the question should be

"If you move away from an atemi, would the teacher hit you?"
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Old 06-08-2003, 11:54 AM   #6
jaime exley
Dojo: Aikido West
Location: California
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Jun,

How would you define a "hit"? If you would include a touch to the face to show that I am not aware enough (or simply too slow) my vote would be "very often". If you only consider a hit as having the intention to hurt than I'd have to go with "almost never". I can't say never for fear that if I did, and this post got back to her, she may decide to change her gentle ways. lol

Jaime
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Old 06-08-2003, 07:21 PM   #7
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
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Could "block" be substituted with "react to?" This would really change the meaning of the question but might instigate interesting comments.

Jaime,

I have trained with a lot of wonderful teachers, and I have to say that you are training with one of the best. You are very lucky.

Charles
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Old 06-08-2003, 07:44 PM   #8
Chuck Clark
 
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There's also a need to define "hit" as well. I "hit" people with my intent quite often during practice and never inflict any damage. Atemi can fill openings and if the intent is strong there'll be an honest response. If students don't learn from that, I "up the ante" appropriately until they discover the answer. I think a little blood on a lip or nose is necessary with those of us with thicker heads. I know I needed it at times. I'd rather leave a few of these "memory knots" than have a student discover it from someone that isn't taking care of them in the dojo. It's part of the practice. I also welcome the same from anyone I practice with. It's how we all continue to learn and polish...

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 06-08-2003, 09:41 PM   #9
Lan Powers
Dojo: Aikido of Midland, Midland TX
Location: Midland Tx
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I voted "always" since Sensei will often (ok, ocasionally) drop his block, or parry to check if you are striking with intent.

btw, an atemi will vary with speed and power to fit the technique as performed.

Actually it is more difficult to do the technique properly from a "false" attack/atemi, than if it is done with intent.

Just try to control the "damage factor" of landing if they don't move off line.

Lan

Play nice, practice hard, but remember, this is a MARTIAL art!
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Old 06-08-2003, 11:45 PM   #10
Bronson
 
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Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
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Quote:
If you would include a touch to the face to show that I am not aware enough (or simply too slow) my vote would be "very often". If you only consider a hit as having the intention to hurt than I'd have to go with "almost never".
Almost exactly what I would've written.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 06-09-2003, 08:57 AM   #11
jaime exley
Dojo: Aikido West
Location: California
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Quote:
I have trained with a lot of wonderful teachers, and I have to say that you are training with one of the best. You are very lucky.
Thanks Charles,

I do feel very fortunate, but it's nice to be reminded once in a while.
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Old 06-09-2003, 09:24 AM   #12
akiy
 
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Hi folks,

For me, at least, a "touch" is not a "hit." Then again, most folks (including my teacher) does not do things with the intent to harm -- even if they throw me very, very hard. However, they have all done things at one time or another to basically make a part of their body physically occupy the same place as a part of mine, usually with the outcome of me falling down due to it for one reason or another.

-- Jun

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Old 06-15-2003, 05:07 AM   #13
taras
Location: West Yorks and Merseyside, UK
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 170
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My first sensei was using me as an uke once. he requested a mune tsuki in the head but he was not happy with the way I did it. You could spot my attack miles away, and he told me about it previousely. It wasn't directed streight either. So, to make his point sink in my head he attacked me with a faster and linear mune tsuki, which would land on my jaw, I have no doubt, if I didn't block it.

We never spoke about the incident again, but I am sure each one understood what the other one was trying to say. I don't give away my attacks and he knows an opening may still be protected. But I have no doubt that he would hit me if I hadn't blocked it.

Some years later he started a new dojo and while there was no other students we used to fight. I think "brawl" would be a better word. No rules, but there were no full contact punches (he would tie me in a knot instead - a bit like in that joke - I saw fingers and decided to bite them but they appeared to be mine).

Those fights made me open my eyes to the reality of the fact that even putting someone into a pin may not be the end of a fight, that some people know a bit about Aikido and can escape techniques.

And I am still proud that out of those countless times I actually beat a nidan once or twice.
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