Kiai Usage

I was wondering,

Do most Aikido schools teach the use of Kiai? Comming from a TKD background (Sorry...) I was taught its use a lot.

Most of the Aikido schools I have visited so far have been very quiet, perhaps this is only taught in more advanced forms...?

Trent

I've never been told to specifically use it (noise-wise that is). Although, as was said in another post it also means harmonising your ki to maximise the attack/technique, so in that way I try to do it all the time.

In jo suburi, one of them (don't ask me the no. or name!), where you drop down to your left knee and do an ushiro tsuki you're supposed to do a kiai. Also, with boken, when you do the sword of universal ki (boken suburi no.3) I think you're supposed to do a kiai.

I have noticed both myself and others doing unintentional kiai when you're in mid air and just about to have a particularly hard slam into the mat - I think it comes out as a bi-product of trying to breath out hard very quickly.

Other than that, the dojo takes on an earie silence, only interspersed by fore-arms slapping matts.

Elric123 wrote: I was wondering, Do most Aikido schools teach the use of Kiai? Comming from a TKD background (Sorry...) I was taught its use a lot. Most of the Aikido schools I have visited so far have been very quiet, perhaps this is only taught in more advanced forms...? Trent

It's used in weapons suburi frequently.
In my experience, Aikido people tend to simply exhale (even explosively) without making too much sound during a technique.
Perhaps this is because many schools have the habit of demonstrating Atemi without practiscing them. A kiai with, say, a hip throw, might seem a bit OTT during dynamic (co-operative) training.
I think you almost nailed it- it's probably only used in more advanced training in a lot of Dojos. I don't think my teachers have put too much emphasis on getting that explosive power into attacks so long as the attacks are committed. Still- they do teach me Kiai...
ndrew

at my dojo, sensei insists on it, even for the beginners

Same here. kiais are used for a reason

Best it's done from day 1.
Teach good habits early.

Trent Loreant wrote: I was wondering, Do most Aikido schools teach the use of Kiai? Comming from a TKD background (Sorry...) I was taught its use a lot. Most of the Aikido schools I have visited so far have been very quiet, perhaps this is only taught in more advanced forms...? Trent

why are you sorry you came from a Tkd backround?

Indeed, never be apologetic about your previous training. Its gives every one else a chance to learn more - from you.
(yes we may rib you a bit about it, but then I do the same when talking about my curly locks - I don't have any - curly or straight)

Anyway - kiai.
Never used to train with it. We generally used strong kokyu.
However, now I train and teach weapons almost entirely with it.
(Iwama ryu had a wee bit of an influence here, god bless them)
It makes a difference for me (as a mid to long time aikidoka) and think it more beneficial than training without it.
Others find it interrupts their concentration, so I allow people to come to their own balance with this.

So long as the instruction is good, kiai or not, isn't critical.
Its your sensei that will determine this, just trust their decisions.

Trent Loreant wrote: I was wondering, Do most Aikido schools teach the use of Kiai? Comming from a TKD background (Sorry...) I was taught its use a lot. Most of the Aikido schools I have visited so far have been very quiet, perhaps this is only taught in more advanced forms...? Trent

No, seriously! why do people here not like Tkd?

I personally don't "not-like" Tae Kwon Do, but I do have a few problems with the way in which it is taught or some of the people that practice it.

The main problems I have with some (maybe most) TKD schools is that they market their art as "karate", which is far from the truth and thusly lying to the people that see such advertisement and screwing around with the somewhat limited knowledge of martial arts in some areas. I mean, I don't mind in the least if the school markets TKD as...TKD. It is a style that has it's own history and it's own fundamentals and shouldn't be afraid of it and try to brush it off as "karate", which I believe is completely different. Also, I've run into a few TKD people that believe that they know "karate" or whatever and believe they are the best thing since sliced bread. Now, I know there are people like this in every style of every art and that's probably never going to change. Mainly this dislike is really only towards one cocky school in my hometown that's students are this way.

As for TKD, I would personally like to learn it...I mean, you gotta admit it'd be cool to learn how to kick 10 feet in the air while flipping (exaggerated of course)...but if the main purpose of opening some schools is, and I quote from a local instructor in Tupelo, "A money making art...", I believe that this reasoning hurts the martial arts community somewhat.

Now, these are my personal opinions and I don't claim to speak for everyone else on this forum, but maybe it'll help you out on figuring out why some people don't like TKD...

Bryce

Kiai is useful in learning to direct intention. It's funny but you really do seem to be able to tell someones ability to put forth a feeling in the way their Kiai comes out.

Here are two wonderful examples of the practical use of the kiai. Unfortunately the video doesn't 100% capture the power of Parker sensei's Kiai, however, I can personally vouch for the feeling of paralysis that seems to wash over one's body. Extremely effective if you ask me!

http://www.seikeikan.com/video/mar02-7.wmv

http://www.myaa.info/media/Houston_W...A_Problem_.wmv

Bryce Montgomery wrote: I personally don't "not-like" Tae Kwon Do, but I do have a few problems with the way in which it is taught or some of the people that practice it. The main problems I have with some (maybe most) TKD schools is that they market their art as "karate", which is far from the truth and thusly lying to the people that see such advertisement and screwing around with the somewhat limited knowledge of martial arts in some areas. I mean, I don't mind in the least if the school markets TKD as...TKD. It is a style that has it's own history and it's own fundamentals and shouldn't be afraid of it and try to brush it off as "karate", which I believe is completely different. Also, I've run into a few TKD people that believe that they know "karate" or whatever and believe they are the best thing since sliced bread. Now, I know there are people like this in every style of every art and that's probably never going to change. Mainly this dislike is really only towards one cocky school in my hometown that's students are this way. As for TKD, I would personally like to learn it...I mean, you gotta admit it'd be cool to learn how to kick 10 feet in the air while flipping (exaggerated of course)...but if the main purpose of opening some schools is, and I quote from a local instructor in Tupelo, "A money making art...", I believe that this reasoning hurts the martial arts community somewhat. Now, these are my personal opinions and I don't claim to speak for everyone else on this forum, but maybe it'll help you out on figuring out why some people don't like TKD... Bryce

Thanks for clarifying that! I did a little tkd and had none of those problems. but I was 7 when I did it!

Burt Masem wrote: Thanks for clarifying that! I did a little tkd and had none of those problems. but I was 7 when I did it!

I took kendo, karate, and TKD when I was that age, and dind't really like any of them except kendo, which I did for a few years, until I discovered Aikido. Now I am taking kendo again and a little iaido (very food addtion to aikido)

~~I trained in TKD four years as an adult and we more 'barked a sound' with every strike in order to make certain we were breathing into the release. We did use a strong kiai (focused breath intent) while breaking various items. Then in jujitsu we studied both soundful and soundless breath focus at different points during movement. Used sound and sounless intention to mess with partner's mind/rythym. Now in my Aikido training I've noticed that there are different types and levels of kiai. Sounds just come out of me at times during routine practice. At times I'll use an intentinal kiai because I'm in a 'silent' dojo and don't want to get conditioned to feeling uncomfortable using a kiai. I still practice both soundful and soundless kiai. I've only used a 'full' kiai twice and it was a bit scary in the effect on my mind/body. Everything was committed to the max at that instant of no going back; there was a sense of almost losing conscious control and sense of self to the moment. I've also had the odd experience of aborting a kiai; very weird feeling of throughing something inside yourself into reverse and instantly dissipating energy. Over the past few year I've messed around with what I can only call a soundless 'mental kiai'. Still working with that one .

Well, that's generally all I've got just now. Good training and be careful.

I was going to open up a new thread on kiai, but thought that it'd be better to post here. I have practiced at two different dojos from different organizations. One puts less emphasis on it than the other. Besides expelling oxygen when thrusting or throwing, I like using it for another reason.

IMHO, it is essential to training at any level and should not be just associated with weapons training. I like to use it to "take the mind" of uke. My feeling is a proper kiai can disrupt an attack. Think about blowing a foghorn at someone coming at you full speed….if its human, it will disturb them in some form.

In the dojo, I've tried doing kiai in randori. IMO, its worth it. If I can get uke, at the very least to blink, then I believe I just gained a small advantage over my attacker.

Just be carefull you don't give any advantage away...I've known people to watch for your kiai and to try to break your jaw when you do it ... mouth open, right hook, no jaw...

Not that I'm against kiai or anything...

RT

Lots of kiai here, both in buki-waza and in taijutsu practice (Iwama Style).

thanks for the tip Ron. Hopefully, I "get to them" first before they get to me