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Old 06-13-2003, 09:13 AM   #1
jimbaker
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 149
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Insurance woe

We've been negotiating to lease a building for a dojo and have just been informed that the owner was told by his insurance company that they "advise" against renting to a dojo and that they would cancel his insurance if he didn't follow their "advise". It's one of the major insurers in the US.

Has anyone else come up against this lately?

Jim Baker
Norfolk, VA
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Old 06-13-2003, 06:17 PM   #2
ikkainogakusei
Location: All over CA
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 137
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Re: Insurance woe

Quote:
Jim Baker (jimbaker) wrote:
We've been negotiating to lease a building for a dojo and have just been informed that the owner was told by his insurance company that they "advise" against renting to a dojo and that they would cancel his insurance if he didn't follow their "advise". It's one of the major insurers in the US.

Has anyone else come up against this lately?

Jim Baker

Norfolk, VA
I must say that I heven't heard of this before (not that it doesn't happen), but I wanted to wish you luck. Seems like a frustrating circumstance. Hopefully someone will have an answer for you.

Again, good luck.


"To educate a man in mind, and not in morals, is to educate a menace to society." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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Old 06-14-2003, 12:34 AM   #3
Kelly Allen
Dojo: Friends Dojo
Location: Winnipeg
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 190
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That doesn't make sense to me. Isn't the insurance of the dojo the responsability of the dojo? I mean aside from fire, vandalism, flooding, or a car driving into the building, what does the land lords insurance have to do with what business it leases to? As long as the owner of the Dojo can show they have adequete insurance appropriate for a dojo, what business is it of the land lords insurance company?

I would be asking for spacific reasons. To me it sounds as if the land lord is trying to use this as a negotiating ploy some how.

On the other hand the worse that could happen is you'll have to take your business else where. Or is there a shortage of commercial space in your city?
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Old 06-14-2003, 01:00 AM   #4
batemanb
 
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Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
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Quote:
Kelly Allen wrote:
That doesn't make sense to me. Isn't the insurance of the dojo the responsability of the dojo? I mean aside from fire, vandalism, flooding, or a car driving into the building, what does the land lords insurance have to do with what business it leases to? As long as the owner of the Dojo can show they have adequete insurance appropriate for a dojo, what business is it of the land lords insurance company?

I would be asking for spacific reasons. To me it sounds as if the land lord is trying to use this as a negotiating ploy some how.

On the other hand the worse that could happen is you'll have to take your business else where. Or is there a shortage of commercial space in your city?
I would have to agree with Kelly here. I don`t know about the US, but here in the UK, the insurance is down to the dojo. The dojo rental is through a landlord, our insurance is taken out separately, and personally against each instructor.

I would ask for more info to clarify the why`s and where fore`s, possibly call the insurance company directly etc.

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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Old 06-14-2003, 05:00 AM   #5
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
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actually I think there could be a case for the landlords insurer telling them not to rent to a MA dojo if that insurer has had losses in the past due to inadequate coverage on the renters side. The insurance industry has changed since 9/11, and many people are finding insurance more difficult to find, and significantly more expensive than previous. It applies in particular to housing, but I've been hearing lots of rumblings about insurance increases throughout the industry, and Mr. Baker's experience might be part of this trend. It would be terrible if we became increasing difficult to insure and rent to, as finding a decent priced building is difficult enough as it is!

Good luck Mr. Baker.
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Old 06-14-2003, 11:30 AM   #6
taras
Location: West Yorks and Merseyside, UK
Join Date: Mar 2003
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if I were the landlord I would rather find another insurance company which did not stand between me and my sourse of income.
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Old 06-14-2003, 12:57 PM   #7
Charlie Huff
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 15
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You definitely should look into getting insurance for your dojo, whether you continue to work with this particular landlord or not.

When we first started making plans to open the Charlotte Aikikai, insurance was one of the first items of business that we took care of -- before we even got our mats. Our policy lists the owner of the building as co-insured.

If you're affiliated with a larger organization, you should also check with them. Some organizations require dojos to show proof of insurance in order to be recognized.

We have met the enemy and he is us.
-- Pogo
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Old 06-14-2003, 03:20 PM   #8
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I don't think it was Mr. Bakers intention NOT to get insurance, only that the landlords insurer would not allow a MA dojo in the building and keep their insurance. Are there any insurance agents out there on this website who can help clear this up and help Mr. Baker?
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Old 06-15-2003, 09:23 AM   #9
jimbaker
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
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Rachel's correct.

We have 2 million dollars in coverage and we offered to put a hold harmless clause into our waver to cover the landlord.

What is troubling is the thought that this is the policy of a major insurance company. I've contacted the realtor and asked if he could put me in contact with the insurance agent.

I'm sure the landlord could easily look for another insurer, but he seems (second hand) to be a bit timid and the insurance company scared him away from the idea of renting to us at all. Even if he changed insurers, I doubt that he would rent to us now.

JIM
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Old 06-16-2003, 12:56 AM   #10
batemanb
 
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Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
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Quote:
Jim Baker (jimbaker) wrote:
Rachel's correct.

We have 2 million dollars in coverage and we offered to put a hold harmless clause into our waver to cover the landlord.

What is troubling is the thought that this is the policy of a major insurance company. I've contacted the realtor and asked if he could put me in contact with the insurance agent.

I'm sure the landlord could easily look for another insurer, but he seems (second hand) to be a bit timid and the insurance company scared him away from the idea of renting to us at all. Even if he changed insurers, I doubt that he would rent to us now.

JIM
2 million dollars doesn't seem like much in these days of "ambulance chasers"! Having inherited the culture here the UK, we generally insure for 5 million pounds, although I was informed at a meeting last weekend that Sussex County Council require a minium of 10 million pounds since they had to pay out 8 million (not related to Aikido).

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
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