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Old 06-20-2003, 02:20 AM   #76
Edward
Location: Bangkok
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Quote:
César Martínez (Goye) wrote:
does she or the chief instructor know about this thread?
Probably not. Otherwise I would have certainly heard from them. I am aware of the risk I am taking with this thread, but I am hoping it might help to improve a rather sad situation.
 
Old 06-20-2003, 02:37 AM   #77
PeterR
 
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I guess it all comes down to what the student expects and wants from training.

I would personally let the Chief Instructor know that the only real concern is continued harrasment concerning gradings and the like and then just continue training and avoid that person as much as possible.

And before anyone jumps down my back

Personally:

one person would not chase me out of an organizaiton.

if my only source of Aikido required some discomfort I would suffer a little bit rather than stop

and I would let the person know that if they pulled stuff like that on me again they would understand the true level of their Aikido.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
 
Old 06-20-2003, 09:00 AM   #78
DaveO
Dojo: Great Wave Aikido
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Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
Personally:

one person would not chase me out of an organizaiton.

if my only source of Aikido required some discomfort I would suffer a little bit rather than stop

and I would let the person know that if they pulled stuff like that on me again they would understand the true level of their Aikido.
I agree with Peter 100% on all these points; especially the last. Just to be clear; I don't believe in payback or vengeance; and I certainly have no illusions of my own skill in Aikido; but there is a line between agressive instruction (which I appreciate) and assault (which I don't). If that line is crossed; the person doing the crossing must be taught that doing so is wrong. If words suffice; well and good. If they do not however; stronger responses - whatever they may be - are not only justified; but can be considered morally right.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
 
Old 06-20-2003, 11:58 AM   #79
Peter Goldsbury
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I have followed the entire thread and also have had some private correspondence with Edward. The matter has already gone beyond this thread.

The reason why I have become involved is that I think Edward should not become a scapegoat for making public a problem which affects many dojos, namely the behaviour of senior students who appear to have a 'special' relationship with the shihan in the dojo/organization.

I have posted this to make clear to people who have participated in this thread that Edward has not been left to deal with the matter on his own. His organization is affiliated to the IAF and I for one take dojo violence (of the sort beyond merely 'severe' training) very seriously.

Best regards,

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
 
Old 06-20-2003, 12:00 PM   #80
aikidoc
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Geez. My comments which were much less aggressive than what is being said about the sexists remarks were expunged earlier in this thread. It's starting to degenerate again.

Fact: abusive instructor that has assaulted more than one student, with an organization that ostensibly tolerates, condones, or encourages this person's behavior.

Solution: possibly legal but cultural difference may apply. Leave the place and find a dojo that teaches aikido not combat jiu jitsu.
 
Old 06-20-2003, 07:03 PM   #81
Jim ashby
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Do anything in your power to get rid of this person. This person disgraces your Dojo, disgraces Aikido and, in my opinion, is a disgrace to martial arts. If you cannot get rid, then move yourself.

Have fun

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
 
Old 06-20-2003, 09:34 PM   #82
jk
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Well, it's going to be pretty tough to find a face-saving way of removing said instructor from the dojo. At any rate, perhaps this abusive instructor should be encouraged to proselytize aikido among, say, Muay Thai practitioners? A whirlwind tour of Thai boxing camps may be just the thing for a little attitude adjustment.
 
Old 06-21-2003, 06:02 AM   #83
Patrick in Bangkok
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I have been training in Aikido in Thailand since 1995 and hold the rank of shodan in the Aikido Association of Thailand. Over the years, I have been fortunate to have a close relationship with Shihan Fukakusa, senior instructors and students at the Renbukan dojo. In my view, the Aikido training in Thailand is great and the Aikido people here are among the friendliest and most generous that I have known.

While I was not present in the class during which the alleged incident in this thread occurred, I have independently talked with 5 people, who do not include the 2 people involved in the incident, who were present in the class and witnessed it. The witnesses include Thais, foreigners and Shihan Fukakusa (7th dan) who was teaching the class. According to the witnesses:

1.) The 2nd kyu male who was involved in the alleged incident is also the author who started this thread.

2.) The 4th dan female only struck the author with a shomenuchi strike which was called for in the technique. At no point did she otherwise punch or kick him.

3.) Rather, it is actually the author who assaulted the 4th dan female with punches to the mid-section and face, apparently with intent to cause harm, which was not called for in the suwari waza shomenuchi iriminage technique that as tori he was supposed to be performing.

4.) The author has used relative rank to confuse the issue. Rank is only important in Aikido. It is not important in fighting, particularly when it involves a man hitting a smaller and older woman.

5.) To add some perspective to this, the female 4th dan is less than 5 ft (150cm) tall, weighs less than 100 lbs (45kg), and is more than 10 years older than the author.

6.) Also note that the 4th dan female does a tremendous amount of work for the Aikido Association of Thailand. The author has done nothing productive for the Association, especially given the substantial amount of baseless bad-mouthing that he has done over this forum.

7.) Lastly, note that the subjects of this authors bad-mouthing, particularly the 4th dan female, are unlikely to respond to postings on this forum because they are not fluent in English.

Regarding other alleged misdeeds that the author has made in this thread:

1.) The Aikido instructors and students that I have talked to are not aware of anyone ever breaking an arm in the dojo.

2.) The Thai and Indian females, who the author alleges have stopped training due to being mistreated by the 4th dan female, are actually attending universities hundreds of miles away from Bangkok (one studies in Europe) where they now practice Aikido. When they are in Bangkok for school holidays, they attend the 4th dan females classes.

3.) The above Thai students brother, who the author also alleges has stopped training, does not attend practice regularly only because he is sitting for school exams.

Just because it appears on Aikiweb does not mean that it is so.

Enough.
 
Old 06-21-2003, 11:49 AM   #84
aikidoc
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Patrick:

There are always two sides or perspectives to a story. Now, it sounds like the 2nd kyu has an agenda with the instructor. I was wondering when the second side would show itself.

I guess this is a good lesson for us all. Both sides should be given ample opportunity to state their points of view on such issues of accusations, negative press, and incidents as potentially negative as this one.

Perhaps this will die what appears to be an overdue death. I wonder now what the implications are for the 2nd kyu if in fact he is the author.
 
Old 06-21-2003, 01:57 PM   #85
Chuck Clark
 
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Edward,

You've always had strong comments and opinions expressed on Aiki-Web ...

What is your answer to Mr. Holert's post? If it is true, then I think you had a lot of folks really going and as far as I'm concerned, you've really "stepped in it."

I think, as John Riggs said above that this should be a good lesson for us all.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
 
Old 06-21-2003, 06:33 PM   #86
Edward
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Thanks a lot Patrick! That's all what I can say. Talking about back stabbing....

I will reply to Patrick's post point by point, but I am not going to get involved in an exchange of accusations and counter accustaions, so this will be my last post in this thread.

1. True, I am the person in question.

2. Not true. She attacked with a shomen Uchi, I did a Suwari Irimi nage as required. She stood up and attacked me while I was still sitting. I just protected my face for a few seconds from her blows, then managed to throw her in a kokyu nage. We were immediately separated therafter.

3. Not only this is not true, it is also very ridiculous. I was in a Suwari position, being attacked from a standing position by a lady. Just to imply that I attacked a lady in this way is a big insult to my honour and dignity.

4. Again. See no. 3.

5. True. Which gives you an idea about this lady who is 47 years old, is a 4th dan instructor, and is still capable of doing such stuff as mentioned above.

6. Correct. She has helped a lot in the organization. She also has cast me out in the last 2 years and did not allow me to participate and contribute to anything in the organization.

7. True.

As for the 3 last points, I know and Patrick knows that what he claims is absolutely not true.

This said, I cannot describe to you my disappointment with Patrick's post, in which he calls me a lyier, and twists the truth upside down in a way that I become the guilty one instead of being the victim.

Not only that, but knowing that Patrick practices only once a week at a different dojo, I am surprised where did he get his information from. Knowing that Patrick usually writes my teacher's correspondence in english, since he himself is not capable of that, I have reasons to believe that the above post mirrors Fukakusa sensei's position on this issue. I can only consider the whole matter with dismay, and disbelief, that my teacher is turning this issue against me, instead of dealing with the cause of the problem.

Last point. Aikido is not that important to me. Having seen how ugly it can get, I would rather stop my training altogether. I am a respectable expat with a very good creative position in one of the biggest jewelry companies in Thailand. I really have neither the time nor the energy for this nonsense.

Thanks and goodbye.
 
Old 06-21-2003, 09:17 PM   #87
aikidoc
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interesting turn of events

This post needs to die a fast death.

We now have two very different perspectives on the events portrayed. One by the person there who disquised himself throughout the thread instead of coming clean with the posters and two, someone reportedly researching the information who was not there to witness the event.

Who can tell what the truth about the issue is and at this point having been mislead throughout the thread I think most feel who cares. Let the parties sort it out and let this die without further misdirection and misrepresentation.
 
Old 06-21-2003, 09:45 PM   #88
Edward
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I also believe that this thread went too far.

Please accept the following as the conclusion and I would appreciate it, if this thread would just be forgotten.

It takes 2 persons to make an accident. I believe I myself am largely to blame for what happened. My arrogance and lack of consideration surely played a role in provoking the unfortunate incident.

I consequently said too many stupid things on the web, blinded by my anger.

I know it is too late for this now, but just for the record, I would like to apologize sincerely to my teachers, 4th dan instructor and my dojo for all the stupid things I have said. I do not expect to be forgiven but this is something I should do for my own self esteem.

I also apologize to the members of this forum for a thread which was absolutely not appropriate, sorry guys.

Goodbye.
 
Old 06-21-2003, 11:15 PM   #89
akiy
 
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This thread is now closed.

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