Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-21-2007, 07:59 AM   #1
roadster
 
roadster's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Barbara
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 94
United_States
Offline
Dogi worn wrong?

In all martial arts I have seen, folding your dogi top left over right is the way to do it.

I have seen (never in person, only in pictures) people wearing theirs right over left. I have seen both women and men do this.

I was always told that only the dead are seen with their clothing or dogi right over left.

Am I wrong? I know it seems like no big deal but when I see it, it makes me think why people do it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 08:10 AM   #2
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
Location: New York
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,302
United_States
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

It is a big deal to the Japanese. The right goes over the left on DEAD PEOPLE! Unless you are training at a dojo in which the "living dead" are practicing, then I would not suggest that you get this one wrong.

Marc Abrams
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 08:26 AM   #3
Pierre Kewcharoen
 
Pierre Kewcharoen's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido at NJIT
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 100
United_States
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

From what I remember from my sensei Fred Little is that it has something to do with the japanese strictly enforcing people to be right handed with certain techniques or with swords, i forgot which either.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 09:05 AM   #4
Chris Farnham
Dojo: Aikido of Champlain Valley/Hamamatsu Aikidokai/Aikido Shidokai
Location: Hamamatsu, Japan
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 96
United_States
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

I have been told that it comes from sword drawing. The tradition in Japan was always to wear the sword on the left side of the body and draw with the right hand (there is an interesting post somewhere on Aikiweb that explains why a left handed swordsman would be at a disadvantage). If someone were to draw the sword with the right side of their kimono over the left, the fabric would hinder their draw, and they would be more likely to be cut down by their enemy.

We have a similar tradition here in the west. I have also heard that the reason that men's dress shirts and coats button up with the left side over the right comes from old military tradition when men wore swords (on their left like in Japan)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 09:10 AM   #5
crbateman
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
crbateman's Avatar
Location: Orlando, FL
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,455
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

It is also said that smaller weapons and such were once concealed inside the dogi flap, and that the left-over-right arrangement facilitated reaching these items with the right hand.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 09:26 AM   #6
Chris Farnham
Dojo: Aikido of Champlain Valley/Hamamatsu Aikidokai/Aikido Shidokai
Location: Hamamatsu, Japan
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 96
United_States
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

I have also heard that the reason that dogi are generally white is that white signified purity and death, and the Samurai wore white under their armor to show that they were prepared for death*

*Maybe someone else knows whether this is true? I heard it on the History Channel program Human Weapon's episode on Judo and it's Samurai legacy. I am not sure that I trust i, because their were some erroneous facts on the episode.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 09:38 AM   #7
roadster
 
roadster's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Barbara
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 94
United_States
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

Sooooooo, any idea why someone (a breathing someone) would wear it right over left?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 09:41 AM   #8
Fred Little
Dojo: NJIT Budokai
Location: State Line NJ/NY
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 614
United_States
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

Both the drawing of large swords and smaller objects reflect a cultural enforcement of right-handedness.

My tendency is to think that the rigidity of Japanese culture's enforcement of right-handedness developed as a matter of practical safety, to prevent excess occurrences of saya-ate.

In my house, we just seat the lefties at an appropriate corner of the table.

Men's shirts in the West follow the Japanese model, although the cut is rather different.

Now here's a question for the historically fashion minded: why do Western women's blouses close right over left?

Best,

FL
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 09:51 AM   #9
roadster
 
roadster's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Barbara
Location: Santa Barbara, California
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 94
United_States
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

Quote:
Fred Little wrote: View Post
Now here's a question for the historically fashion minded: why do Western women's blouses close right over left?

FL
Because they were dressed by the maids. It is much harder to button up someone else when it is the other way around.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 10:58 AM   #10
gdandscompserv
 
gdandscompserv's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,214
United_States
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

Quote:
Fred Little wrote: View Post
Now here's a question for the historically fashion minded: why do Western women's blouses close right over left?
Here is an opinion: http://www.goines.net/Writing/button_button.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 11:48 AM   #11
Aristeia
Location: Auckland
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 971
New Zealand
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

if you've only seen it the other way in picutres it may well be that the picutres have been flipped in production. This often happens.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 01:21 PM   #12
batemanb
 
batemanb's Avatar
Dojo: Seibukan Aikido UK
Location: body in UK, heart still in Japan
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,029
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
It is a big deal to the Japanese. The right goes over the left on DEAD PEOPLE! Unless you are training at a dojo in which the "living dead" are practicing, then I would not suggest that you get this one wrong.

Marc Abrams
Ditto.

It's what I was told by my sensei in Japan, and my wife, who is Japanese.

Interestingly, I'm sure I saw a Seagal movie one time in which he has his "kimono" silk top done up the wrong way (he was in a boat going up a river in Thailand I think).....maybe I was just seeing things......

A difficult problem is easily solved by asking yourself the question, "Just how would the Lone Ranger handle this?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 01:28 PM   #13
Fred Little
Dojo: NJIT Budokai
Location: State Line NJ/NY
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 614
United_States
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

Quote:
Bryan Bateman wrote: View Post
Ditto.

It's what I was told by my sensei in Japan, and my wife, who is Japanese.

Interestingly, I'm sure I saw a Seagal movie one time in which he has his "kimono" silk top done up the wrong way (he was in a boat going up a river in Thailand I think).....maybe I was just seeing things......
Or maybe someone flipped the negative in post-production, something I've seen in at least one Chuck Norris film....

Best,

FL
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 04:05 PM   #14
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

Quote:
Erik Jacobson wrote: View Post
Sooooooo, any idea why someone (a breathing someone) would wear it right over left?
Lots of reasons.
  • They don't know about the left-over-right convention
  • They don't care
  • They were taught incorrectly
  • They just made a mistake the day the pictures were taken
  • Etc etc.
Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 07:14 PM   #15
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 860
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

Quote:
Erik Jacobson wrote: View Post
Sooooooo, any idea why someone (a breathing someone) would wear it right over left?
I did it once by accident on a grading. No-one noticed. Either that or they were impressed by my resolution to pass the grading or die trying.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 07:48 PM   #16
Nikopol
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 96
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

As long as you are not actually dead, don't worry too much about which way your dogi should close.

Just close it so the corner with the label is on the outside.

Keep your guard up if you absolutely MUST stare down at your dogi in confusion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 08:09 PM   #17
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

Perhaps they have taken the words of the Hagakure to heart ("The Way of the Samurai is found in death.") and are acting as if they are already dead.

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2007, 08:19 PM   #18
Carl Thompson
 
Carl Thompson's Avatar
Location: Kasama
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 453
Japan
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

A cultural way of showing respect for the dead is one factor, influenced by the tendency for most humans to be right-handed.

Here's an interesting article on handedness called "The Throwing Madonna."
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2007, 10:18 AM   #19
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Re: Dogi worn wrong?

I'm a member of a performing troupe that play Dead. I've been known to go out on parade in a black gi tied wrong and a ninja mask.
Unfortunately I sometimes forget that I'm not playing a dead renaissance floozy and start flirting with soldiers...

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Long Island Asian Studies Center - Classes: Aiki Budo/Chi Gong/Tai Chi, Author of: Searching For O'Sensei



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dogi question: Dave Miller General 20 09-02-2005 09:03 PM
Dojo & Dogi, 2nd editon. Zato Ichi Humor 4 07-26-2005 03:50 AM
e-bogu/Budo King dogi question Jesse Zinn Supplies 2 12-15-2004 12:27 PM
Which Dogi? Marshall Sandoz Supplies 35 05-27-2004 07:51 PM
Aikido Books, Magazines & Dogi For Sale BURNS-MAN Supplies 0 06-12-2002 07:09 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:46 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate