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Old 06-06-2003, 02:48 PM   #1
Peter Klein
Dojo: Aikido Kreis Koeln (Germany)
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pragmatic aikido or more flowing soft?

what do you like most. i prefeer the more pragmatic hard style cause i am young and need to get rid of some overloaded energy
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Old 06-06-2003, 02:57 PM   #2
akiy
 
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All of the so-called "styles" of aikido have had a place in my training in one way or another. Not too sure how one approach may be more "pragmatic" than another, though.

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Old 06-06-2003, 03:10 PM   #3
Janet Rosen
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As a small middle aged woman with bad knees and arthritis, the only aikido that is "pragmatic", that is, that I have any prayer of affecting another person with, is actually very soft.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 06-06-2003, 03:25 PM   #4
aikidoc
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It really depends on the attack, attacker and situation. Sometimes soft works best, sometimes hard works (my hard usually also includes atemi).
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Old 06-06-2003, 03:28 PM   #5
kironin
 
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Confused Re: pragmatic aikido or more flowing soft?

Quote:
Peter Klein wrote:
what do you like most. i prefeer the more pragmatic hard style cause i am young and need to get rid of some overloaded energy
Pragmatic isn't necessarrily connected with "hard" or "soft".

Not everyone uses the terms hard and soft in the same way either.

For example, hard to me most often means the excessive use of unecessary force. Often seen on the mat when people are expressing their insecurities about the art and trying to "make it more pragmatic".

Craig
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Old 06-06-2003, 03:44 PM   #6
MikeE
 
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Whatever the Kami sends thru me at the moment

Mike Ellefson
Midwest Center
For Movement &
Aikido Bukou
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Old 06-06-2003, 03:55 PM   #7
Peter Klein
Dojo: Aikido Kreis Koeln (Germany)
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craig hocker: Often seen on the mat when people are expressing their insecurities about the art and trying to "make it more pragmatic".

thats exactly my case to be honest :-(
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Old 06-06-2003, 04:09 PM   #8
JPT
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A transition from a harder style in youth to a softer style in old age seems to be the normal route of developement for most Aikidoka.

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Old 06-06-2003, 04:15 PM   #9
Dave Miller
 
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It seems to me that the distinction between "pragmatic" and soft is extremely artificial. Very soft Aikido can be extremely effective. The less the attacker senses Nage redirecting them, the less they will be inclined to fight it. The notion that "effective" or "pragmatic" Aikido must be "hard" is simply not true, IMHO.

DAVE

If you're working too hard, you're doing it wrong.
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Old 06-06-2003, 04:38 PM   #10
Dave Miller
 
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The key to effective, "pragmatic" Aikido is not doing it harder. Rather, the key is to focus on learning to move "from the ground". If you can effectively transfer energy from the ground, through your legs and hips, through your arms and hands and into uke, then your Aikido will be powerful no matter how "hard" you do it.

DAVE

If you're working too hard, you're doing it wrong.
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Old 06-06-2003, 04:58 PM   #11
erikmenzel
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I simply do aikido. That is about as pragmatic as it can get.

All the rest is simpling trolling along

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
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Old 06-06-2003, 10:29 PM   #12
PhilJ
 
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I too subscribe to the "pragmatic" <> "hard/soft" ideas. I've seen too many shihan/sempai, who are softer than a feather, leave me on the mat wondering what the hell happened -- and their techniques could definitely be considered soft. In one case, my glasses (which were those loop-behind-the-ears cable-style) flew off when I hit the mat so fast. I was nauseous for 30 minutes.

Another time was taking ukemi for Kobayashi sensei way back with munetsuki [hantai] choyaku kotegaeshi. That man barely touched me and my feet were flying. Again, I believe I don't tend to giving myself to nage, so I was thoroughly confused.

I'm not a 'giveaway' uke in class, so I accepted the technique as effective.

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
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