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Old 05-13-2003, 10:22 AM   #26
KaitlinCostello
 
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Location: Commerce City, Co
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I meant no offence Rachel, merely bad wording on my part. My apologies.

I am still a baby in terms of my training time compared to most everyone here, and I still have a few lessons to learn. Back at home I never train with our group wearing a hakama. I respect those elder and senior to me and they respect me too. Hakama becomes a choice at 3rd kyu and above, I merely wear mine in ultra informal occasions. Mainly when I practicing with a few close friends of mine.

I suppose I'm used to training our way, since we pretty much don't deal with rank issues. Many many lessons.. and perhaps even a kyu test in my future.

Best regards,

K

~~No smile is as beautiful as the one that struggles through tears.~~
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Old 05-13-2003, 10:40 AM   #27
Carl Simard
Location: Quebec City
Join Date: Jan 2002
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My view on this is very similar to the one of Craig. So I refer to his post for my general opinion on that point...

As for seminar, as a rule, I check what is the rule of the home dojo/association about hakama and simply follow it. If the seminar is hold at a dojo where only shodan and above wear hakama, I leave mine at home. I think it's only a matter of respect toward the dojo receiving you...

It may be more difficult to identify advanced students from beginners, but after one or two throws you ususally have a fairly good idea of the rank of the guy who is in front of you.

Anyway, in seminar, you usually don't have much time to choose your partner and end up with the nearest person. So, it don't really matters to know exactly the rank since it don't really influence to who you will be matched. At least, it's my experience...
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Old 05-13-2003, 11:03 AM   #28
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
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Thanks for clarifying this Kaitlin, I appreciate your comments and they have merit. It was just the "gift" part that was grating on me, and the experience I had a seminar a few years back when a woman who was wearing a hakama (granted, I am in an org. that typically doesn't wear hakama until dan grade) and told me "don't thow me hard, I can't take ukemi", and I thought she was joking. Even though I threw her quite softly the first time, it was evident that she was really inexperienced and couldn't take even a basic roll (so of course I was even more gentle after the first throw). Fortunately she realized after the first class that she was in a dangerous situation wearing a hakama in a huge seminar full of very gung-ho aikidoka, and took it off. Seminars are definately not a place to wear a hakama unless a) you are a dan rank or b) it is tradition for the org/host (previous post addressed this nicely).

Kaitlin, I too really revolt against being treated poorly on the mat. Poor behavior (note: not equality) in my estimation is when an obvious junior starts to instruct a senior; when someone instructs differently than what the teacher is showing; when someone turns their back on me when I've bowed into them (because they think they are somehow above working with me-or whatever else they've got up their...); when my partner doesn't give me their full attention and committment in the practice; basically any disdain. I hope you don't ever experience these, and most likely in your own dojo you won't. It is at seminars or camps that I find these behaviors, not typically within the dojo. At the same time though, I guess I don't equate hierarchy as having anything to do with poor behavior (unless of course someone is disdainful of me because they are a higher rank).

Anyways, thanks for listening, and for voicing your opinion; all opinions on this site are equally important, and I learn a lot from you, as well as everyone else who posts.

And lastly, hakama length; I would love to hear from Mr. Goldsbury, Mr. Linden, or Mr. Hooker about what they consider the traditional length.
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Old 05-13-2003, 11:16 AM   #29
Daniel Mills
 
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Dojo: Kokyu Aikido Association.
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At our dojo Hakamas are worn from 1st Kyu (Black Tag) and above. We have a Black belt (of which nth Dan I am unsure.) who chooses not to wear a Hakama, and several others who do.

To someone such as myself, only just preparing to take a first test (7th Kyu), the Hakamas are an obvious sign of, not superiority, but of supervision, and experience. Not only are they quite magnificent to look at, and watch as the sweeping movements simply flow through the billowing Hakama, but they add a grace that is simply missing from simple dogi trousers.

I find that the Shodan(+?) who chooses not to wear a Hakama, looks more of a streetfighter, than those who choose to wear them. This is by no means a bad thing, but for an art that uses fluidity, and the aforementioned sweeping movements, and all, the Hakama without question, adds that special something.

I'm sorry I couldn't add anything further, as obviously I've never worn one, only observed those around me, but several things are for sure;

i) I haven't seen anyone trip

ii) I await the day when 1st Kyu may arrive, and I too can find new graces, responsibilities, and make those cool swooshy noises

Best,

-Daniel.
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Old 05-13-2003, 03:56 PM   #30
nial forsyth
Dojo: guernsey aikido club
Location: guernsey/channel island,s uk
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Freaky!

hi there ,just to say ,that in the club that i train ,we wear a hakama after green belt for women and men,not as a sign of rank but as a sign of your commitment to the club and art .

Last edited by nial forsyth : 05-13-2003 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 05-13-2003, 09:16 PM   #31
jk
Location: Indonesia
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If you get to wear a hakama, I think we should take a cue from those folks in the Japanese sword arts. They don't wear dogi pants under their hakama; just a pair of speedos or something like that under there...

Hmmm...in fact, getting rid of the dogi pants might not be a bad idea, hakama or no hakama. Just uwagi and speedos...I like it.
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Old 05-13-2003, 10:10 PM   #32
Qatana
 
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Daniel that was beautiful.

My home dojo uses a colored belt system, the one i am learning weapons at is white belt-Hakama.Its pretty obvious i'm a beginner but i find it helpful to have a clue about the people i'm training with.Anyway i'' be a little old lady by the time i get my hakama...

Q
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"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 05-14-2003, 12:28 AM   #33
Erik
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
John Kuo (jk) wrote:
If you get to wear a hakama, I think we should take a cue from those folks in the Japanese sword arts. They don't wear dogi pants under their hakama; just a pair of speedos or something like that under there...

Hmmm...in fact, getting rid of the dogi pants might not be a bad idea, hakama or no hakama. Just uwagi and speedos...I like it.
Shorts under a hakama are a no-brainer unless the evil spectre of knee walking looms. In that scenario the more the merrier between one's knees and the mats. Of course some folks have definite ideas about what should be worn under one's hakama and it's not unrare to get some grief from the unenlightened.

I seem to recall one relatively well-known instructor (not aikido) who routinely put his jockey underwear on display while leading a seminar. He wore colorful garb as well and near as I could tell the world has not swallowed him up.
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Old 05-14-2003, 08:27 AM   #34
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
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So, with a lot of people using speedos or underwear under the hakama, you could take a really funny picture of people folding their hakama on the mat after a big seminar.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 05-14-2003, 12:29 PM   #35
Jim ashby
Dojo: Phoenix Coventry
Location: Coventry, England
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The Hakama is a Dan grade thing at our club. I think it is a right royal pain in the ass but it looks so cool. I've broken both little toes in the damn thing, more than once, as well.

Have fun.

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
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Old 05-14-2003, 12:38 PM   #36
kironin
 
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hmmm...

generally in Iai people are wearing pants.

It those kendo guys that wear only speedos. :-)

I sometimes wear old gi pants that have been cutoff into shorts, but I draw the line at underwear !

Craig
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Old 05-14-2003, 12:46 PM   #37
kironin
 
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Wink

Quote:
Opher Donchin (opherdonchin) wrote:
So, with a lot of people using speedos or underwear under the hakama, you could take a really funny picture of people folding their hakama on the mat after a big seminar.
Good point !

In iaido and kendo, you are supposed to put on and take off you hakama in the dressing room, never in the practice hall so what you wear underneath stays private. Besides the matter of etiquette, seminars are often on wood floors that aren't necessarily clean enough to lay out your outer clothes anyway like people do in aikido.

Craig
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