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Old 04-22-2008, 09:08 PM   #1
mwible
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Aikido. Effective?

I have been wondering lately, because i have seen everywhere (as I am sure many of you have too) people disclaiming Aikido and its effectiveness in combat, how many of you believe that you could use Aikido effectively in a real combat (life or death/ walk away or eat the pavement) situation?
Also, while I am asking this question, I would like to input that I whole heartedly believe that I could use what I have been taught in just such a situation.
And I don't care how long you have been studying, where you study, how you study, your ranků etc, I'm just looking for a straight up answer.
So.
Do you believe you could defend yourself using Aikido?

Domo,
Morgan
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Old 04-22-2008, 09:14 PM   #2
dps
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

Quote:
Morgan Wible wrote: View Post
I have been wondering lately, because i have seen everywhere (as I am sure many of you have too) people disclaiming Aikido and its effectiveness in combat, how many of you believe that you could use Aikido effectively in a real combat (life or death/ walk away or eat the pavement) situation?
Also, while I am asking this question, I would like to input that I whole heartedly believe that I could use what I have been taught in just such a situation.
And I don't care how long you have been studying, where you study, how you study, your ranků etc, I'm just looking for a straight up answer.
So.
Do you believe you could defend yourself using Aikido?

Domo,
Morgan
Yes. I have done it once before.

David
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:03 PM   #3
mickeygelum
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

Nicely phrased, yet you left out one criteria that would be crucial....in a physical or non-physical response. Without becoming more descriptive, I think that would round-out your query.

Forgive me, if this is incorrect.

Train well,

Mickey
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:17 PM   #4
mickeygelum
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

Me again...

Yes, many times...professionally.

Twice the citizen, without a doubt to the benefit of the aggressor...not saying that they would not remember me, if they laid eyes on me again. They would not attempt an endeavor as they had previously. The select few that attained infamy by pushing the envelope...those folks , I would like to thank for the opportunity to further my ability to pass on knowledge of real-life experience to others.

Train well,

Mickey
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:40 PM   #5
MikeE
 
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

Used it many times as a bar manager and for event security.

I do DT for LEOs and they love the application of aikido for their needs.

There are Tai Chi folks that can whoop some serious butt, and their are "mixed martial artists" that can't punch their way out of a wet paper bag.

IMHO, I think many times it comes down to the artist and not the art in question.

Mike Ellefson
Midwest Center
For Movement &
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Old 04-22-2008, 11:01 PM   #6
rob_liberti
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

I recommend you read this thread:
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...007#post204007
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:47 AM   #7
Carl Thompson
 
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

Hi Morgan,

I think you touched upon this in your 'Aikido the Martial Art' thread but "effectiveness" (however defined) is worth questioning again and again. I'd say you may well be able to use aikido effectively in the situation you described, or you could completely stuff it up and "eat the pavement". The likelihood of the former rather than the latter is subject to all kinds of factors, frequently discussed on this forum.

Quote:
Morgan Wible wrote: View Post
Do you believe you could defend yourself using Aikido?
Yes I could defend myself very effectively using aikido. I could also dramatically fail to defend myself using aikido.

Are there any arts in which this is not the case?

There are no easy answers, but I'd say that if you train to do something, the chances of actually being able to do it should increase if you're doing it right.

Carl
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:12 AM   #8
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

As a soldier I have been trained using many different methodologies for combat and defense. Aikido being one of the methodologies that I still train in.

However, when asked the question concerning what I 'use', I use myself, body, mind, and whatever other tools are available, and/or appropriate for the job. I have never used a methodology such as aikido for anything else other than training myself.

Perspective, but I think we tend to attach ourselves too much to concepts and then identiffy with them. What it tends to do is constrain us, box us in, and cause questions such as "Does aikido really work?"

let go!

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Old 04-23-2008, 01:13 AM   #9
ChrisHein
 
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

If trained correctly, you can't "use" Aikido, you become Aikido.

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Old 04-23-2008, 04:13 AM   #10
Stefan Stenudd
 
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Avoiding attack

Quote:
Morgan Wible wrote: View Post
Do you believe you could defend yourself using Aikido?
Yes.
I also believe that many times, using aikido, I avoid being attacked at all.

Stefan Stenudd
My aikido website: http://www.stenudd.com/aikido/
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Old 04-23-2008, 06:19 AM   #11
SeiserL
 
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

Quote:
Morgan Wible wrote: View Post
Do you believe you could defend yourself using Aikido?
Straight up? Yes.
Train with the intent and intensity so you can know the same about yourself.
IMHO, effectiveness is more about the person than the style.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:12 AM   #12
DonMagee
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

Most of the time I can't use aikido on a compliant uke. Maybe if I had 10 years of free time. But the training methods are slow in developing any aiki skills in me. This of course is compounded by the fact I no longer train aikido on any regular schedule.

Nah, I stick to my XD for self defense and leave the martial arts to the hobbys.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 04-23-2008, 09:01 AM   #13
Stefan Stenudd
 
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Aikido on aikido students

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
Most of the time I can't use aikido on a compliant uke.
It is more difficult to do aikido techniques on aikido students at keiko, even if they are somewhat compliant - because they know what to expect, so they can easily block it, even unintentionally.

When an aikido student really resists a technique, it can be very difficult to do it. That is no mystery, and it is the same for any martial art.
The ingredient of surprise is a necessary part of any technique, so a compliant uke sort of has to pretend to be surprised

Stefan Stenudd
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Old 04-23-2008, 09:12 AM   #14
Dewey
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

Quote:
Don Magee wrote: View Post
Nah, I stick to my XD for self defense and leave the martial arts to the hobbys.
I agree with Don on this one. If this is just a "what if" sort of scenario, then the debate can be endless. Innumerable threads have been posted on this very same subject. The short of it is, nothing trumps a gun in regards to self-defense, provided you know how to use it and are aware of the legal & ethical ramifications of use-of-force.

There's a world of difference between "self-defense" and "combat"...and I'm presuming you mean self-defense. First, I think you need to properly assess what sort of situation/scenario you typically find yourself in when the concern about "self-defense" arises and then examine your motives and what the proper course of action should be (i.e. legal & ethical concerns).

If you are overly concerned about self-defense and fear for your life, then it would behoove you to legally acquire a concealable handgun (with the proper training & permits, of course). Even in feudal Japan, hand-to-hand was the "last resort" for the samurai when he found himself engaged in combat.

The real issue is having a self-defense mindset, being alert and aware of your surroundings at all times...keeping your guard up. Simply being observant of all that is going on around you and not intentionally placing yourself in dangerous/threatening situations (e.g. going to the "wrong side of town" and the like) are the single most effective means of self-defense.

The other issue is if you have a killer instinct or not. This not in the sense of actually killing, but rather in regards to if you are willing to fight. It doesn't matter what style/type martial art you study...what matters is if you have the ability to "flip the switch" and fight for your life when need be. Some folks just don't have it in them.

For what it's worth...

Last edited by Dewey : 04-23-2008 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 04-23-2008, 09:40 AM   #15
gregstec
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

As long as you focus your Aikido training on learning the principles of Aikido, eventually you will be conditioned to use those principles when confronted with situations similar to those your learned the principles in.

In a combative situation you do not have time to think, you react. If conditioned with Aikido principles, your reactions will be Aikido movements.

Been in that situation a handful of times and that is exactly how it works, you just subconsciously react to the attack - when it is over, you are often amazed at what you did because there was no thought involved and things just happened.

Greg
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Old 04-23-2008, 09:44 AM   #16
charyuop
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

Can I defend myself with Aikido??? huhhhh, don't know. Maybe if I am lucky and find the right person I might, or I might get my butt kicked from he to the North Pole. One thing is sure, Aikido is something I didn't have before, so I have a few more chances to get out with the least damage.

You asked about me and I answered about me, not being one of the best (actually light years away from it) Aikidoka. But yes I think someone proficient in this art can very well protect himself.
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:04 AM   #17
dps
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

Maybe the answers to questions like this one should be divide into two categories.

1.) You can see the attack coming and have some time to prepare.

2.) You did not see the attack coming and you reacted from your training.

David
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:20 AM   #18
DonMagee
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

I know what is going to happen when I'm surprised. Because I've had it happen.

I clinch, knee/elbow and throw. It's built into me at this point to automatically do this to break the guys balance so he can't hurt me. The funny part is I don't really train knees and elbows much, so I'm not sure where that part comes from, but basically I do dirty judo. The very few times this has happened it has ended up with me placing my 'attacker' in the knee on belly position before I even realize what's going on.

If I have time to prepare, I have time to leave or get help.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:13 PM   #19
aikidoc
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

I sure hope so. It's the only art I have any competence in. I hope I never need to find out.
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:24 PM   #20
mwible
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Hi Morgan,

I think you touched upon this in your 'Aikido the Martial Art' thread but "effectiveness" (however defined) is worth questioning again and again. I'd say you may well be able to use aikido effectively in the situation you described, or you could completely stuff it up and "eat the pavement". The likelihood of the former rather than the latter is subject to all kinds of factors, frequently discussed on this forum.

Yes I could defend myself very effectively using aikido. I could also dramatically fail to defend myself using aikido.

Are there any arts in which this is not the case?

There are no easy answers, but I'd say that if you train to do something, the chances of actually being able to do it should increase if you're doing it right.

Carl
I see what you are saying, good point. And i really liked the last paragraph of your reply
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:25 PM   #21
mwible
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Re: Avoiding attack

Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote: View Post
Yes.
I also believe that many times, using aikido, I avoid being attacked at all.
I very much agree with this, and i feel the same way as well.
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:26 PM   #22
Aikibu
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

I use Aikido everyday... That's how effective it is....

On a side note who wants to bet this thread grows to 15 pages? LOL.

WIlliam Hazen
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:27 PM   #23
mwible
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Re: Aikido on aikido students

Quote:
Stefan Stenudd wrote: View Post
It is more difficult to do aikido techniques on aikido students at keiko, even if they are somewhat compliant - because they know what to expect, so they can easily block it, even unintentionally.

When an aikido student really resists a technique, it can be very difficult to do it. That is no mystery, and it is the same for any martial art.
The ingredient of surprise is a necessary part of any technique, so a compliant uke sort of has to pretend to be surprised
I also find it fun when i am uke and i REALLY AM surprised. haha. i love that feeling, and it lets you develop a better trust of your ukemi skills at the same time :P
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:40 PM   #24
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

No William, I'd rather see the "other" thread rise from the grave!

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Old 04-23-2008, 04:12 PM   #25
Robert Cowham
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Re: Aikido. Effective?

I have had a positive experience of it being effective for me (unexpected and indeed I was a little drunk at the time).

However I also remember as a youngster shooting birds (pigeon/pheasant) with a shotgun - I was a better shot when "surprised" and put gun to shoulder and shot immediately than when I saw the bird coming from a long way away and had time to line up (and anticipate it).
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