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Old 04-18-2003, 11:08 AM   #1
GregH
Location: Harrisburg, Pa
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Old School Tournament

Hello All,
I was doing some reading and came across and "old school" form of tournament. It's called Kachinuki. To make a long story short, I took it as everyone lined up by rank lowest to highest in seiza....1st two lowest ranks fought, the winner going up against the next highest rank...and so on and so on. It seemed to level the playing field a bit i.e. the higher ranks sat in seiza for awhile, while the lower ranks were warmed up loose etc. Has anyone heard of this in Aikido, or do it goes against our principles? Does this sort of interaction have any application in Aikido? Thanks for your time.


Greg
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Old 04-18-2003, 11:20 AM   #2
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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Re: Old School Tournament

Happens a lot in Judo and BJJ. Never heard of it in Aikido, though I'm new. Maybe Tomiki?

As for it's place in aikido...I ain't touching that with a 10 foot stick ;-)
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Old 04-18-2003, 01:55 PM   #3
Joe Jutsu
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We did this in high school wrestling, starting with the 110 pounders going up to heavyweight. The contest was "sumo style" wrestling, where you just had to get the opponent out of the ring. As for aikido, I've never heard anything like it. Don't ki society and tomiki (sporting) style aikido's get criticized for their "competitive" aspects of their arts, because it is "un aiki".
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Old 04-18-2003, 07:32 PM   #4
PeterR
 
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Tomiki has no weight classes in randori. Just grab and go. Sometimes we have rotating groups but randori tends to be quite informal at least at Honbu.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 04-18-2003, 09:47 PM   #5
shadow
Dojo: Aiki Kun Ren (Iwama style)
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randori is great in aikido.

competitive fighting i just dont think can work properly. firstly we rely on some kind of comitment from an attacker and in a fight between two aikidoka, who would want to comit? knowing they will probably lose...

secondly you cant make something in aikido work without the comitment either, sometimes after class my friends will try do a kotegaishi or shiho-nage or anything on me but if i havent given them anything to work with, its not gonna happen.

so competitions would involve very strange rules and would probably have to disintegrate to using other style not just pure aikido, like some wrestling, judo, karate, kung fu, whatever.

happiness. harmony. compassion.
--damien--
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Old 04-18-2003, 10:08 PM   #6
Peter Goldsbury
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In Japanese, kachinuku (勝ち抜&#12367) means to win one game after another and a kachinuki-sen (勝ち抜&#25126 is a tournament.

The closest activity I have seen to this is in Japanese university clubs to celebrate special occasions, like new dan promotions. Occasionally, one person must take on all comers for 30 minutes (10 minutes as uke; 10 minutes as tori etc), and if the partner is senior, then there is much scopr for reverse techniques. Alternatively, one person must taken on the entire club in succession, with, say, 20 or 30 techniques per member (the rest shouting encouragement and counting).

In my experience, local dojos do not do this kind of training: members simply lack the stamina to throw or be thrown continuously for 30 minutes or more.

Best regards to all,

Last edited by Peter Goldsbury : 04-18-2003 at 10:13 PM.

P A Goldsbury
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Old 04-19-2003, 02:03 AM   #7
PeterR
 
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Kenji Tomiki's Aikido (Shodokan) manages just fine. Both in tanto and toshu randori. There is no mistaking it for Aikido.
Quote:
Damien Bohler (shadow) wrote:
randori is great in aikido.

competitive fighting i just dont think can work properly. firstly we rely on some kind of comitment from an attacker and in a fight between two aikidoka, who would want to comit? knowing they will probably lose...

secondly you cant make something in aikido work without the comitment either, sometimes after class my friends will try do a kotegaishi or shiho-nage or anything on me but if i havent given them anything to work with, its not gonna happen.

so competitions would involve very strange rules and would probably have to disintegrate to using other style not just pure aikido, like some wrestling, judo, karate, kung fu, whatever.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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