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Old 04-17-2003, 11:40 AM   #1
mamboking
Location: Strongsville, OH
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4
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Question Bruce Bookman or Donovan Waite?

Hi,

I started Judo about 18 months ago and I am still having problems with my Ukemi. I do fine with forward rolls but I have a problem with my breakfalls (after I can breathe again, they really hurt ).

I've looked for some in depth Judo books or videos on ukemi, but I couldn't find any. That's when I came across Donovan Waite and Bruce Bookman's videos.

I was wondering if anyone had an opinioin on which would be better for a judoka?

Thanks,

Kevin Hostelley
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Old 04-17-2003, 12:22 PM   #2
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Kevin,

I recommend you read this article

Regards,

Paul
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Old 04-17-2003, 12:42 PM   #3
mamboking
Location: Strongsville, OH
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Quote:
paul watt (paw) wrote:
Kevin,

I recommend you read this article

Regards,

Paul
Thanks Paul for the link. I've read that article before. In fact there is an interesting counterpoint over at judoinfo.

Kevin Hostelley
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:04 PM   #4
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Kevin,

I'd be happy to discuss the article and response either privately or on another forum.

My point was simply that both Bookman and Waite are going to approach ukemi from a different point of view from sport judo and that context may not be what you are looking for. (Of the two videos, I have seen only one so I cannot make a comparision between them.)

Also, you may want to consider Scott Sonnon's work on "ground engagement" as it is different from aikido ukemi. Sonnon has a competitive background in sambo, which is similar to judo and may be a better fit, considering your goals.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:14 PM   #5
Choku Tsuki
 
Choku Tsuki's Avatar
Dojo: Bond Street Dojo
Location: New York, New York
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Choose "Advanced Ukemi"

I own both videos (Bookman's "Advanced Ukemi" and Waite's "Ukemi Vol. 1") and recommend Bookman's; I've watched each extensively and practiced the waza therein.

"Advanced Ukemi" adresses judo directly; specifically falling on one's side and how bending the bottom leg prevents knee hyperextention. There is good stuff in it all around; you may particularly like the time spent on koshi-nage.

--Chuck
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:18 PM   #6
mamboking
Location: Strongsville, OH
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Thanks Paul but I think I need to clarify "why" I'm asking.

I'm 36 years old and about 225 lbs. I have been practicing judo for about 18 months and I have no interest in competition.

Several times in the past year and a half I have suffered from a pinched sciatica after taking some heavy "drill you into the ground" throws (seoi nage). I am looking for a way of falling that will be easier on my body. I find that everytime I'm about to get thrown I go into a complete panic and it's making Judo a whole lot less fun.

Thanks,

Kevin Hostelley
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:35 PM   #7
mamboking
Location: Strongsville, OH
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Chuck,

Thanks for the info.

Do you think I could get by with just buying Bookman's "Advanced Ukemi" or should I also get his first tape "Ukemi"?

Kevin Hostelley
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Old 04-17-2003, 05:19 PM   #8
Jesse Lee
Dojo: Tenzan Aikido, formerly named Seattle Aikikai
Location: Seattle, WA
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I have not seen either video, but I have trained for 2.5 years and counting under Bookman, and IMHO he is God's gift to ukemi

, can't find m s
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Old 04-17-2003, 08:20 PM   #9
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Kevin,
Quote:
Several times in the past year and a half I have suffered from a pinched sciatica after taking some heavy "drill you into the ground" throws (seoi nage).
Seoi nage? A drill you into the ground throw?

I'll assume that it wasn't the drop version of seoi, which seems to be more popular, but even so, I wonder if it's not an ukemi issue, but a training one. How hard do people throw during practice? Are crash pads regularly used?
Quote:
I find that everytime I'm about to get thrown I go into a complete panic and it's making Judo a whole lot less fun.
This sounds to me like a fear reaction that is causing you to tighten up. Perhaps another indication that people are training too hard?

Your profile lists you in Ohio. Save your pennies and consider attending the "Spirit of the Eagle" week long training camp in Bluffton, OH. Although the cost will be more expensive than a video tape, you should get hands-on personal instruction from some fantastic judo coaches.

Also, consider cross posting on the Judo Q&A, located in the the Underground. There are some world-class judo players who post there.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 04-18-2003, 10:35 AM   #10
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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Wow

Well...there's a first time for everything I guess

I disagree with Paul!!

Turnouts really are fairly dangerous. 2000 Judo Olympics anyone?

But beyond that, they're not really ukemi (recieving) in a sense, more like a jamming manouver to stop you landing cleanly on your back.

If you really want to do the turnouts, get some gymnastics training under your belt. You need good "air sense" to use em IMHO.

As for Sonnons stuff...yes it's interesting...and might even work...but has a very, very small margin for error. The "rear ground engagement" for example I can do full speed on any surface. It's great fun, and makes you feel superhuman to do wierd ukemi onto concrete. But, if my hand were even 2 degrees off tilt...forget it. The mechanics of it are risky to begin with. Combine that with being thrown at speed....

Ditto the front "spinal wave down". (though I use that movement to lower heavy objects without strain)
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Old 04-18-2003, 10:40 AM   #11
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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paul watt wrote -



>Seoi nage? A drill you into the ground >throw?

Yes indeedy. Makikomi style - ouch!

You're right tho- as judo throws go, it's fairly tame.

hane and harai still give me nightmares.
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Old 04-18-2003, 10:46 AM   #12
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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Kevin

Drop me an email.
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Old 04-18-2003, 11:05 AM   #13
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Bob,
Quote:
Well...there's a first time for everything I guess I disagree with Paul!!
Remember, I am evil. You pointed that out yourself.

Warm Regards,

Paul
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Old 04-18-2003, 11:11 AM   #14
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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Quote:
paul watt (paw) wrote:
Bob,

Remember, I am evil. You pointed that out yourself.

Paul
True, though I hope you took no offence at that ;-)

Have you honestly had much success with using the Ground Engagements in place of rolling? I can guess you'd be better at them than I, but still...wow, risky!
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