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Old 04-17-2003, 10:07 PM   #1
Thor's Hammer
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Question A question that came up

I was talking with one of my friends who is 1st dan in karate, and we were going through the usual friendly banter what if I did this then I'd do this etc. touching on the fact that we both believe our respective art to be better than the other's

However, I was unable to find a response when he said that when thrown, the response of a karate practicioner is to 'snake kick'. I wonder what this is and how to counter it.
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Old 04-17-2003, 10:20 PM   #2
sanosuke
Dojo: Seigi Dojo
Location: Jakarta
Join Date: Nov 2002
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ask your friend to show what a 'snake kick' is
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Old 04-18-2003, 01:23 AM   #3
Kelly Allen
Dojo: Friends Dojo
Location: Winnipeg
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Quote:
Reza Kauzar (sanosuke) wrote:
ask your friend to show what a 'snake kick' is
Also ask him how he plans to do it while he's flying through the air?
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Old 04-18-2003, 01:35 AM   #4
aubrey bannah
Dojo: Yoshinkan Brisbane
Location: aust
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If you could have thrown you friend you could have and should have in a self defence situation broken a joint. Use tai-subaki itself to neutralize the attack and continue the counter offence if neccessary. In training this is a throw, in selfdefence incapacitation.
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Old 04-18-2003, 03:02 AM   #5
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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"snake kick"? If he means what I think he does -

http://www.neokarate.net/lingo/term/...admulekick.asp

I would respond thus:

Ha Ha HA ha hAaH ha HA <wheeze>

Ha. HA HA HA HA HA Hha ha <snort>

Mhhhh ha.

Ha.

Good one.

Unless he was a gold medal gymnast in a previous life, there's *no way* he'd have the dexterity to do that while flying thru the air upside down and off balance.

Ask him to snake kick you while you irimi nage him. (I have enough trouble keeping my head attached duing irimi nage)
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Old 04-18-2003, 08:20 AM   #6
MikeE
 
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Dojo: Midwest Center For Movement & Aikido Bukou Dojos
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I love these other martial arts guys that think that Aikido is soft and fluffy.

Just because we have the ability in our art to meter the level we put a technique on to protect the other person.

From Bob's post about iriminage....even better make it an ateminage under the jaw.

All the Best.

Mike Ellefson
Midwest Center
For Movement &
Aikido Bukou
Dojos
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Old 04-18-2003, 10:21 AM   #7
acot
Dojo: West Michigan Aikido
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
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I took Karate for a while when I was in high school. I really enjoyed and it has many things in common with Aikido. Lanuage, culture, foot work mostly a respectful attitude.

Aikido is the graduate school of Japanese martial arts and I have notice Aikido works a lot more on the small details of attack and nutralizing.

Last edited by acot : 04-18-2003 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 04-18-2003, 12:49 PM   #8
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Actually, there are styles of ukemi which kick when taking front or back falls. Its not that hard to do, and I have actually hit shite occationally (by accident). A well placed kick with the heel to the head while taking ukemi can do wonders.

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-18-2003, 01:04 PM   #9
bob_stra
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Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Actually, there are styles of ukemi which kick when taking front or back falls. Its not that hard to do, and I have actually hit shite occationally (by accident). A well placed kick with the heel to the head while taking ukemi can do wonders.
Yes, I've done as much by accident.

But to assume someone unskilled could do it with deliberation is ridiculous.

Besides which - he kicks you in the head, you break 17 of his bones throwing him. Fair trade ;-)
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Old 04-21-2003, 02:58 PM   #10
Ron Tisdale
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Well, you're definately right about someone unskilled being unlikely to do it...but **I** would hopefully never make the mistake of **assuming** someone is unskilled...

And if someone is skilled enough to place the kick with intent, they are probably skilled enough to take the fall unharmed. I've been tossed pretty good...and still had the composure to place the kick...intentionally missing.

Ron (walking away...the fairest trade of all) Tisdale

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-22-2003, 12:20 PM   #11
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
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Quote:
Kelly Allen wrote:
Also ask him how he plans to do it while he's flying through the air?
I don't know what a snake kick is, but there have been many times I could have kicked NAGE and come out the better of the two of us. Breaking UKE is not always a given. The capacity for KAESHI at all implies the capacity for clocking NAGE, too.

Times and places I've been able to kick NAGE STRONGLY:

* In the back of NAGE's head with my heel on IKKYO;

* On the side of his head with my instep on any technique where NAGE (more often than you'd think) bends over as I fall onto my back before him/her;

* YOKOMEN (anywhere from the lower carotid to the upper parietal) with instep (tough UKEMI, but I've done it and survived)on KOTE GAESHI.

* Into hip while holding NAGE's ankle to knock them down when they come around to roll over UKE on KOTE GAESHI.

* On the carotid on the throw down for IRIMI NAGE. Instead of walking gullibly back into NAGE's embrace the way most of us do, fold onto the mat, come around the other way and take hold of NAGE's arm, and kick up while pulling NAGE into it (then sink a triangle choke if you're not an aikido purist...)

Bob Strahinjevich: Yes, I've done as much by accident. But to assume someone unskilled could do it with deliberation is ridiculous.

The original post refered to "one of my friends who is 1st dan in karate", hardly someone "unskilled."

Bob Strahinjevich: Besides which - he kicks you in the head, you break 17 of his bones throwing him.

Bob Strahinjevich: Fair trade

No--wishful thinking.

Last edited by Don_Modesto : 04-22-2003 at 12:24 PM.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
------------------------
http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
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Old 04-22-2003, 02:11 PM   #12
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Nice post, Don. I like the specifics...I think there's one or two in there I haven't tried!

RT

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 04-23-2003, 03:03 PM   #13
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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Don J. Modesto (Don_Modesto) wrote -

>The original post refered to "one of my >friends who is 1st dan in karate", hardly >someone "unskilled."

I would consider such a person "unskilled" when it comes to ukemi and the general body co-ordination required for aikido (and counter moves). It's a gross generalization of course.

Besides which, we don't even have a actual definition of "snake kick". Perhaps the karateka mean "I will kick you in the balls, then lets see how good you throw".

>Besides which - he kicks you in the head, you >break 17 of his bones throwing him.

>Fair trade

>No--wishful thinking.

For a sadistic soul, it should be quite easy to cause WAD or concussion with irimi.

In terms of impact, irimi nage is quite close to hani goshi. Folks have been killed by hani onto unpadded surfaces. Eg: Last years' "Judoka kills hatchet wielding lunatic with barehands" news story.

The broken bones bit was my "artistic licence" on how it feels to be on the end of irimi from my training partner ;-) I gotta learn this Waite style ukemi stuff or one day soon he'll decapitate me.

Last edited by bob_stra : 04-23-2003 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 04-30-2003, 04:47 PM   #14
Jeff R.
Dojo: River Valley
Location: New Hampshire
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If anyone can throw any kind of kick or strike at Nage while they're being thrown, then Nage isn't throwing, or Nage hasn't been throwing long. In either case, please tell me that showing Nage those openings forces an instant correction in technique so it can't happen again. I would be extremely upset if my techniques had the potential for that kind of breach and no one pointed it out.

Exercise and extend your Ki with conviction; feel its awesome power--just smile.
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