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Old 04-16-2003, 10:43 AM   #26
John Boswell
 
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Dojo: Aikido of Midland
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Jenna,

Kevin, in MY opinion, was way harsh in his comments above. He can like me or not, but he was way out of line talking to you the way he did.

On the other hand, the others do make a point about the potential damage with regards to rings. I'm engaged but wear no ring yet, being the groom. I've often considered just what you are considering now: Never taking off the ring for any reason. But the fact remains there are just certain times when it is safer and more practical to not have on a ring... no matter how devoted you are.

Devotion isn't proven by wearing your ring. Devotion is proven by taking your vows, MEANING them and then living up to those vows on a daily basis. Worst wedding I ever attended was watching the bride look down at her feet and say half-heartedly "I do" and then looking up and smiling at my best friend. (...never forgive myself for not stopping everything right then.)

SAY you do.

MEAN it...

but leave the ring in the dish on the dresser at home. It'll be there when you get outta the shower.

Good luck in your future married life!

Oh ya, don't quit Aikido!!

!!

Last edited by John Boswell : 04-16-2003 at 10:45 AM.

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Old 04-16-2003, 11:00 AM   #27
Chuck Clark
 
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I have seen a wedding ring (normal size band) break two front teeth while doing a shomen ate (pushing on the chin). It made the strangest sound and the person suffered lots of pain. This, of course, was a freakish accident, but if it happened once it could happen again.

I require wedding bands to be covered with tape, but it could still break a tooth.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 04-16-2003, 12:23 PM   #28
BC
Location: Chicago, IL
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Congradulations on your engagement!

I always take off my wedding band before getting on the mat. Not for my safety, but for the safety of others. That, and my fingers fluctuate a great deal in thickness depending on the temperature and humidity, so much so that sometimes my ring could easily fly off. However, in our dojo, the rule is to please take off all jewelry, or else cover it with tape.

Another consideration is that if you practice with weapons, you might damage either your ring or the weapon.

Robert Cronin
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Old 04-16-2003, 02:04 PM   #29
Kevin Wilbanks
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Quote:
Paul Smith wrote:
A bit of a followup, re: Kevin's post. Under the guise of being an iconoclast regarding religious/idiosyncratic "zealotry," Kevin, you proceed to say "if the rules are good enough for every one else, why not you." Can't have it both ways. Calling people fools or zealots for having individual beliefs does not square with telling them to tow the party line.

People have beliefs; each to their own. I am an atheist, but would never become religious in my atheism by declaring "religious believers" are "idiosyncratic" fools, and need to convert to my way of thinking.
Speaking of high drama... I do not see the parallel you are trying to draw.

Participating in Aikido involves following certain rules and restrictions, both for the sake of safety and tradition. There is also an element of ceremony in leaving a large part of one's ego and cherished self-importance at the door, or in the dressing room with all your individualistic clothing. A large part of Aikido is about conforming to tradition and the laws of physics - it isn't some kind of freestyle, anything-goes cooperative. Theoretically, one distinguishes oneself on the mat via one's actions within the parameters of the art, not by the bravado one displays by holding oneself above the rules. Rebellion and nonconformity can be good things, but there are 20-some other hours in the day in which to stick it to the man, impose one's drama-queen antics on bystanders, etc... If one can't let go of that for an hour or two to train, it seems to me like there is a problem. On the other hand, if no one in the dojo objects to one's quirkiness, then there is no problem, but only because your kink has passed under that dojo's particular radar.

I still think posing this extreme intransigence about the ring symbolism as some kind of do-or-die showdown scenario smacks of some kind of unbudo-like egotism. Personally, I enjoy expressing such tendencies at times, but not on the mat.

As far as where, how, and in what fashion you may best worship me, check out the official website of my followers: http://www.wilbanksisgod.com

With regards to my other detractors: does the word 'milksop' mean anything to you?

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 04-16-2003 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 04-16-2003, 02:51 PM   #30
Michael Neal
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With regards to my other detractors: does the word 'milksop' mean anything to you?
Really, so this is how you describe yourself?

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Old 04-16-2003, 03:42 PM   #31
Paul Smith
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Tried the link, Kevin, couldn't be displayed. Guess it's from just too-rarefied a place. Or a room all to yourself.

As to egoism at the dojo mat, couldn't agree more. (See my previous posts). My contention is your objectively elevated rant and summary judgment of a person's character based on a simple question. Bottom line, how about we all give the scathing personal critiques a rest? "Aiki" or something to that effect.

Paul Smith
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Old 04-16-2003, 03:54 PM   #32
Kevin Wilbanks
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Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
Really, so this is how you describe yourself?

Actually, it is inappropriate to address to use the second person here - a transgression usually punishable by summary execution. Indeed, The Exalted Supreme Overlord of the Milksops should only be referred to thusly, or as His/Your Grace, or as His/Your Excellency. No other pronouns will be tolerated.

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 04-16-2003 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 04-16-2003, 09:00 PM   #33
Michael Neal
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Quote:
Actually, it is inappropriate to address to use the second person here - a transgression usually punishable by summary execution. Indeed, The Exalted Supreme Overlord of the Milksops should only be referred to thusly, or as His/Your Grace, or as His/Your Excellency. No other pronouns will be tolerated.
I apologize for the infraction.
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Old 04-17-2003, 09:43 AM   #34
Leslie Parks
Dojo: Tenshinkan Dojo
Location: Chicago
Join Date: May 2002
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To Ring or Not To Ring

Jenna, congratulations on your engagement. If you are more comfortable wearing your ring, wear it. Over the years, I've seen people wear their rings, not wear their rings. Everyone has their own preference. My best advice is try it and see how it feels.

However, as a like owner of a plain 4 mm platinum band, I may be a little closer in what you will experience. After I was married, I thought, 'Yeah, I'll wear the wedding band on the mat!' I lasted 20 minutes. While our nice narrow bands are unobtrusive in daily life, that same narrow quality becomes a thin piece of metal digging into the bone of your finger when some joint lock is applied. Oh, and being platinum, it is a REALLY HARD thin piece of metal digging into the bone of your finger.

And since my hand was injured in a car accident last month and they had to cut my rings off at the hospital, I can tell you getting platinum cut off is no picnic(what..the hardest metal?).
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:30 PM   #35
twilliams423
Dojo: Hacienda LaPuente Aikikai
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I had a new student join my class recently. She had on a friendship bracelet, one of those woven twine/thread thingies.

I gave the standard instructions to the new group she was with re: jewelry, etc. Basically leave it at home, it's unsafe for reasons covered in all the previous posts, plus my own special set of reasons which have to do with not needing adornment to enhance our desirability on the mat (this one covers make-up, perfume/cologne, low cut dogi tops with hiphuggers, baseball caps worn sideways). Pleez, hook-up on your own time! And I specifically requested that she not wear it in class.

Well... it was special, it had this meaning and attachment, she's had it for sooo... long.

But, odious ogre that I am, I think Aikido is special too. And I think that one has to make choices in life. And here's the first one for her involving Aikido.

So, next class she's got an elastic bandage on her wrist, the kind with the two metal clips that hold it in place. No, it's not to cover the forbidden item, she's sprained her wrist.

OK, but the bandage has to go because the metal clips are not going to fly. Nor can one weasle out of following the rules so easily. (I said I was a meanie).

Long story short : No longer training in my class. My opinion, I saved her maybe two weeks before she would have dropped out anyway (is that too cynical?).

Moral to this story? (multiple choice-I'm a teacher) A. Leave the ring at home. B. Tape over it to fake out the teacher C. Find a new dojo that doesn't care D. Quit Aikido while your ahead

Tom
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:54 PM   #36
Alfonso
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Wow, aren't the chances of getting a broken tooth from a wedding band rather lower than dying from shihonage on your head?

wow, love the argument.

was losing a student over a wedding bad good? I've practiced for years with mine on, and discovered that

a) it's not an available handle for nage(unlike earrings, noserings, brow-rings, pony tails, braids, long fingernails)

b) if you crunch my fingers hard (sempai did this to get me to take it off) the fingers hurt ; the ring and finger combo in my case doesn't do much to alter that)

c) most of the time i'm not even aware of it, so I kept going to the mat with it on, in spite of my best intentions

Alfonso Adriasola
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Old 04-17-2003, 07:43 PM   #37
Michael Neal
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I think I will wear my ring to class just to spite some of the people here
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Old 04-17-2003, 11:08 PM   #38
Andrew Wilson
Dojo: jiyushikan
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I was flipping through a book called "moving to stillness" by Dave Lowery (I believe.) at either rate, the story was entitled "get a new wife".

There once was a guy who was walking in the park and he ran into this guy who was a falconer. He said to the falconer, man I really wanted to learn how to do this, but my wife would never let me spend the time out here that you do. the falconer replied "get a new wife."

Sure he was prolly just kidding, but life is about sacrifices and commitments. Budo isn't something to take lightly, its a serious commitment. If my girlfriend wouldnt let me train, I would consider what sort of life I would lead with her if I was not allowed to make a choice.

This is sort of simular, if you dont want to take your ring off because of some vow... then dont. Just dont plan on training in a school that has rules against the wearing of a ring.

"The wise man, after learning something new, is afraid to learn anything more until he has put his first lesson into practice." - Tzu Lu
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Old 04-17-2003, 11:11 PM   #39
Andrew Wilson
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Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
I think I will wear my ring to class just to spite some of the people here
I dont think I could train with someone who didn't respect the rules of the dojo. I was taught its your job to take care of your partner and if your wearing a ring is potentialy dangerous, your not doing a good job of that.

-A

"The wise man, after learning something new, is afraid to learn anything more until he has put his first lesson into practice." - Tzu Lu
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Old 04-18-2003, 06:36 AM   #40
Michael Neal
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Quote:
Andrew Wilson wrote:
I dont think I could train with someone who didn't respect the rules of the dojo. I was taught its your job to take care of your partner and if your wearing a ring is potentialy dangerous, your not doing a good job of that.

-A
My point is that all of you are taking this ring thing way too seriously. Maybe not wearing a ring for safety reasons is a good idea but those here that try at turn it into some sort of sacrifice for the art Aikido is ridiculous.
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Old 04-18-2003, 07:07 AM   #41
Kevin Wilbanks
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Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
My point is that all of you are taking this ring thing way too seriously. Maybe not wearing a ring for safety reasons is a good idea but those here that try at turn it into some sort of sacrifice for the art Aikido is ridiculous.
Actually, if you'll recall, it was the original poster who was all prepared to cast it as some sort of big either/or drama, prior to the situation ever arising, which was what I was responding to. Personally, I think a wedding ring is unobtrusive enough not to be much of a hazard to others, but if the sensei/school wants it off for reasons of safety or a level ego playing field, I don't think there should be exceptions.
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Old 04-18-2003, 10:36 AM   #42
aikidoc
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I feel this is purely a safety issue for both parties. It would not be a pleasant experience to catch your ring on another person's ring as you were being thrown in the opposite direction. The other issue is the possibility of cuts and blood borne pathogens.

I do not allow jewelry on the mat except in the case of body jewelry which won't come off aand then I admonish great care. It is just not worth the risk to lose an ear lobe, strangle someone with a necklace on or lose a finger over.
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Old 04-19-2003, 03:54 AM   #43
Kelly Allen
Dojo: Friends Dojo
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OW MY FINGER! OW MY KNEE!
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Old 04-19-2003, 09:56 PM   #44
PhilJ
 
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How about wearing an earring while working with someone who uses your head in irminage? OUCH! (That happened to me once)

I usually take my rings off (don't wear my earring much anymore) simply because they hurt my hands during some techniques. I wear particularly thick bands which are incompatible with a nice, tight ikkyo pin. One of those usually dissuades nage from wearing a ring.

Chains, protruding jewelry, bracelets, watches.. I like to see them come off "just in case".

*Phil

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
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Old 04-19-2003, 11:15 PM   #45
taras
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I have been married for 2.5 years and my wedding ring never came off apart from two occasions. Once when I was washing my hands it slipped off and I caught it before it went down the sink. A couple of hours later I had first almighty argument with my wife and she ran away to her parents crying. Logically there was no connection between those two incidents. The second time, a year after the first one, I was asked to remove my ring by a doctor when I broke my knuckle (on another finger). I removed it for about five minutes and two days later my wife and I were threatening each other with a divorce; no logical connection either.

I am not trying to prove anything, only telling you what happened.

According to Feng Shui certain things (physical objects) can represent aspects of our lives. Some people have wedding photographs in their bedrooms etc; some believe in always wearing rings. Such a belief does not prove luck of dedication to Aikido.

I also have a nipple ring, which cannot be removed. I put plasters on both rings and it feels quite safe. I agree, a plaster would not prevent an injury if someone landed on your ring, but what I figured out for myself is to practice awareness at all times.

If you are being thrown in a crowded dojo and there is a chance that you hit someone else as you are rolling, whose responsibility should it be to prevent an impact? I think nage should take care where uke is being thrown and make sure there is space for him/her to roll. Uke should be aware of surroundings and avoid rolling into other people. People training near should be aware of others. Accidents do happen for all sorts of reasons but should Aikidoka not practice awareness? Did OSensei not ask his students to attack him unexpectedly?

I recently winessed an accident, which freaked a lot of people out. After a shihonage someone landed on his elbow and cracked a couple of ribs. Had he executed proper ukemi the accident would not happen. It was tragic but I am sure he is not going to do it again. My point is, practice awareness. I wonder how difficult it would be for a samurai to execute a roll wearing two swords, possibly a knife and having long hair with a pin? Oh, and hakama, of course.

I see taking care of my two rings and my long hair as an addtitional challenge. And after all, accidents happen anywhere, not only in the dojo, like so many exaples in this thread show.

Disclaimer: this is only what I figured for myself, I am not suggesting that anyone follows my example.

Last edited by taras : 04-19-2003 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 04-20-2003, 06:36 AM   #46
Kelly Allen
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And if he was wearing a gold elbow jewlery thingy he would have killed himself instead. Good thing he wasn't.
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Old 04-20-2003, 08:10 PM   #47
Paul Smith
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Ok, IT'S A BAND. If you can do damage to me with this unobtrusive thing on my finger, or I to you, then one of us deserves the title of Musashi II, for chrissakes. I have a hard time believing this little thing of gold can be anything at all when training, which is what lead to my original post. If you have a secret -ryu of waza with a closely held gold band, then either better keep it secret, or share it with the world, friends.

Paul Smith
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Old 04-23-2003, 04:27 AM   #48
Kelly Allen
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rrrriiiiinnnnnnggg rrrriiiinnnnnggg

hello!

TAKE IT OFF!

CLICK

I hate crank calls!
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Old 04-23-2003, 07:33 AM   #49
jxa127
Dojo: Itten Dojo -- Mechanicsburg, PA
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Quote:
Paul Smith wrote:
Ok, IT'S A BAND. If you can do damage to me with this unobtrusive thing on my finger, or I to you, then one of us deserves the title of Musashi II, for chrissakes. I have a hard time believing this little thing of gold can be anything at all when training, which is what lead to my original post. If you have a secret -ryu of waza with a closely held gold band, then either better keep it secret, or share it with the world, friends.
Well, we would share it with the world, but then the commercialization would kill the mystique. Still, if you'd like to become a student and you are willing to study for years, you can sign the blood oath tomorrow and start training right away.

One of the first things we'll show you is how to block a killing sword strike with you wedding band. You won't learn the hiden, killing techniques until much later, of course.

For specifics of our instructor's lineage and details about the art, send an e-mail to: thisisjustajoke@budoryustuff.com

Regards,

-Drew

----
-Drew Ames
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Old 04-23-2003, 08:27 AM   #50
Paul Smith
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Drew-san:

Thank you for the generous offer - you must know my character already, else you wouldn't extend such a sacred path so easily. I have studied already in the sacred esoteric arts, so my lot is filled.

However, as a special bonus, for your kind offer, in addition to receiving 1 chef's knife, 1 paring knife, 1 serrated edge knife and 275,012 steak knives, I invite you to train in the only legitimate esoteric art form left:

http://www.yellowbamboo.com/

Please keep a lid on it, though. Dilution is always a danger.

And don't send money now, send it when you grab your checkbook.

:-)

Paul Smith
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