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Old 11-12-2003, 10:46 PM   #101
akiy
 
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Quote:
Alan Lomax wrote:
That not only gave us a couple of high quality examples of "Soft Break falls", but also answered the age-old question that has been burning in my mind. That being; if a Nana Dan fell down in the Dojo when no one else was around to hear, would they still make a sound?
Heh - thanks! I took more videos tonight, so I'll hopefully have a few more clips of different stuff soon.

As for a nanadan making noise when they fall, we'll have to see how much noise I make if/when I reach such a lofty height! Most of the seventh dan and up folks whom I've had the chance of throwing seem to have pretty good ukemi, though.

-- Jun

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Old 11-12-2003, 11:00 PM   #102
Nafis Zahir
 
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I train with Donovan Waite Sensei. But I used to train somewhere else where they taught high, soft breakfalls. I was learning to do it that way. There a student there, now a San Dan, who was the best at it. Very high, reached for the mat practically before his feet left the mat, and hit the mat so softly, that even the Instructor said it was like air. Well, after many years of doing it that way, one day, his shoulder began to hurt. Come to find out that even thought that fall was soft and pain free, the height, the unseeming weight, and the constant "lag time", finally took its toll on his shoulder. After that, he said he would only take break falls when absolutely necessary. Lower breakfalls may seem harder, but your body actually absorbs more shock. Something for everyone to think about. I'm not saying don't reach for the mat, you just might not want to do it too soon.

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Old 11-21-2003, 01:16 AM   #103
Abasan
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Jun, I always thought you were bigger/older or something. Excellant falls, looks very similar to Donavan Waites falls... (i saw his clip with Yamada shihan).

Is that what he is teaching in his ukemi tapes?

Anyway, Nafis... about that San Dan you mentioned. Is his ukemi similar to the one Jun had on his clip? It look somewhat that Jun had his arm really cushion his body into the fall slowly rather then using it to disperse the force.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
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Old 11-21-2003, 10:35 AM   #104
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Hi folks,

I went and uploaded a few more ukemi video clips:

1) http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/...breakfall1.mpg

2) http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/...breakfall1.mpg

3) http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/miscbreakfall1.mpg

The first is a back breakfall in the style, I believe, popularized these days by Donovan Waite. The second is the "falling leaf" ukemi (with a twist) that I showed at the Aikido-L Seminar this past weekend; I'll see about doing another one without the twist soon. The third is an odd breakfall that I was taught by a guy from Russia a while back; I can't say I do this ukemi at all and, in fact, it's been several years since I last tried it...

These are all around two to three megabytes each as well. As such, they'll probably play better after being downloaded to your local hard drive and played there rather than straight from the site.

As I said before, please don't treat these as "definitive" nor even "recommended" ukemi techniques but, rather, as a sampling of some stuff I've encountered over the years. I can't take responsibility for their use (or misuse); make sure you're doing these under qualified instruction!

Please let me know if these do not play. They're all in MPEG1 format so they should be viewable by almost everyone.

-- Jun

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Old 11-21-2003, 04:33 PM   #105
aikidoc
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Jun-nice tapes. That last one (the Russian version) looks awkward from twisting the body.

You've seen a 7th dan take ukemi-I haven't seen any higher than 6th and that's because he's a younger 6th.
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Old 11-21-2003, 04:52 PM   #106
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Quote:
John Riggs wrote:
Jun-nice tapes. That last one (the Russian version) looks awkward from twisting the body.
Of course, that could just have been my awful re-rendering of that ukemi through my body. Maybe if I practiced for a bit...
Quote:
You've seen a 7th dan take ukemi-I haven't seen any higher than 6th and that's because he's a younger 6th.
Heh. I've had many occasions to have sixth dan folks take ukemi for me; one happens to be our senior student here.

Also, just a short while ago, I had to perform a counter to ikkyo (known as "aiki otoshi" or "sukui nage") on an 8th dan who was uchideshi to the founder for 15 some odd years. (It goes without saying that had he not allowed me to do so, I wouldn't have been able to throw him. He wanted to show the dangers of brining uke in too close during ikkyo...)

-- Jun

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Old 11-21-2003, 08:31 PM   #107
aikidoc
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And he took the back fall? Wow. I've seen Ikeda sensei take ukemi but he's about my age. I did see a tape with Hikitsuchi sensei taking rolls-he must have been in his 60s or 70s at the time.
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Old 11-25-2003, 11:34 PM   #108
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Cool

Quote:
ahmad abas (Abasan) wrote:
Anyway, Nafis... about that San Dan you mentioned. Is his ukemi similar to the one Jun had on his clip? It look somewhat that Jun had his arm really cushion his body into the fall slowly rather then using it to disperse the force.




No, it was much higher and the reach was fully extended. His hand would hit the mat while his feet were still pointing towards the ceiling!PS-You never answered the email I sent you!

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Old 12-01-2003, 11:49 AM   #109
kensparrow
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Jun,

Thank you! Those videos are awesome. Definitely a case of a picture being worth a thousand words!
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Old 12-01-2003, 10:15 PM   #110
Lan Powers
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Once more, a deep-felt thanks for the effort of getting these clips done, and put up here.

Kind of cool to know how you have given something to so many folks Jun, isn't it?

(Kinda like this whole site)



Lan

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Old 12-02-2003, 12:38 AM   #111
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Thanks for the clips!

We definitely do the second 'falling leaf' ukemi in my home dojo in Latvia (though we call it the 'fish' ukemi) - myself, I've trouble using it with one hand busy and I don't think people do that at our dojo very often, but there was a 4th dan from Italy over once who used it from suwari waza ikkyo very neatly.

I can usually do the Donovan Waite back ukemi when I've got something to suspend myself from with one hand (ie, someone's arm), but I'm not very good at just doing it on the spot - any suggestions for improving that?

Now the third one really is weird. . .it also looks kind of neat, though.
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Old 03-29-2004, 07:33 PM   #112
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Hi Jun,

I went back to this thread to download your ukemi video clips
but the URL's don't seem to work anymore, at least not when I tried just now. Is it possible to make these available again?

Thanks a lot,

Daniel
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Old 03-29-2004, 10:16 PM   #113
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Hi Jun,

I would love for you to put those clips back online also. (I've only seen the first two of them).

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Old 03-30-2004, 01:14 AM   #114
Benjie Lu
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Quote:
Hi Jun,

I went back to this thread to download your ukemi video clips

Jun wrote:

http://www.aikiweb.net/vi...tbreakfall1.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/vi...tbreakfall2.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/vi...kbreakfall1.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/vi...tbreakfall1.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/vi...cbreakfall1.mpg

but the URL's don't seem to work anymore, at least not when I tried just now. Is it possible to make these available again?
Jun, please, please, please...

Thanks!

Benjie Lu
Manila, Philippines
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Old 04-01-2004, 03:34 PM   #115
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Ken,

If you ever come up to Burlington Vermont I could show you how to do it. You won't hurt yourself in the process either. The only thing is that I've never seen Donovan Waite Sensei take uke, so I don't know if it would be different than what you are looking for. It's easy to learn how to do it, but it may not look like what your teacher wants you to do. By the way, I believe that Donovan Waite Sensei is in Burlington this weekend at the Champlain Valley Aikido.

TC
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Old 04-05-2004, 11:56 AM   #116
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Hi folks,

I went and made the following clips available again:

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/softbreakfall1.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/softbreakfall2.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/...breakfall1.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/...breakfall1.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/miscbreakfall1.mpg

I can't guarantee they'll be up for too long, though, as their download does take up a fair amount of bandwidth. I'll be watching the stats and logs...

-- Jun

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Old 04-05-2004, 12:07 PM   #117
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Jun, many thanks!

Daniel
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Old 04-05-2004, 12:45 PM   #118
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Jun:

Thanks for putting those back up again.

I have also discovered something that really makes the breakfall quiet if you can time it right. That is getting the foot (opposite the landing side) down reaching with the ball of the foot before the side of the leg hits. It's the tuck leg in the roll. I have found by reaching down with it you can really get quiet. The reach back with the arm and riding it down buys you some time to try and reach down with the leg.

For example: on a right side kotegaeshi when you would breakfall on the left as you reach back with the left arm try and get the right leg to reach the ball of the foot toward the mat. Then you can ride both the arm and the foot down resulting in very little impact on the side of the leg (just two quiet pats). I have not been able to do this consistently yet (haven't worked on it in a while) but when I do succeed it is really quiet. Just some thoughts.
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Old 04-06-2004, 11:33 AM   #119
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Thanks for these, Jun.
Quote:
Jun Akiyama (akiy) wrote:
http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/softbreakfall1.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/softbreakfall2.mpg

DJM: This fall seems to be a hybrid of what Donovan Waite teaches and what I see in the ASU. You go over like the Waite people, but you don't roll across your shoulders, you take the fall principally and your side, sitting up into the both-legs-in-front posture so characteristic of Waite method falling.

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/...breakfall1.mpg

DJM: Here you go across the shoulders. Do you prefer the one-sided fall on the forward UKEMI for a reason?

DJM: While I love the softness I see in people doing this--still have yet to learn it myself--I don't care for the transition into sitting with both legs out front. I like to bounce right up after a breakfall and face NAGE as soon as possible. With the sitting thing, there's an interval, SUKI if you will, in response time. What's your take on this, Jun?

Thanks, again.

Don J. Modesto
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Old 04-06-2004, 11:44 AM   #120
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Hi Don,

Good to hear from you.
Quote:
Don J. Modesto (Don_Modesto) wrote:
Here you go across the shoulders. Do you prefer the one-sided fall on the forward UKEMI for a reason?
I'm not too sure what you mean by a shoulder-to-shoulder fall in a front breakfall. Do you have a clip or a reference somewhere that I can see?
Quote:
Don J. Modesto (Don_Modesto) wrote:
With the sitting thing, there's an interval, SUKI if you will, in response time. What's your take on this, Jun?
My take is that pretty much every interaction that you have with someone at the dojo is a "yakusoku keiko" -- a training with a promise. As such, there are plenty of other places in which there are openings that are quite blatantly presented -- an elbow into uke's kidney during ikkyo takedown, a kick into uke's face during kaitennage, a sharp twist of the hips at the end of a nikyo "high" pin, and so on and so forth. As such, of course there may be an opening, but the same kind of openings exist in pretty much everyone's training that I've seen...

Lastly, I think I mentioned it before, but these falls are not necessarily indicative of what I usually do in daily practice nor are they meant to be any sort of recommendation over other types of falls. Rather, they're just samples of types of breakfalls that I've become exposed to -- that's all.

-- Jun

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Old 04-06-2004, 12:07 PM   #121
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Thanks for the quick response.
Quote:
Jun Akiyama (akiy) wrote:
I'm not too sure what you mean by a shoulder-to-shoulder fall in a front breakfall. Do you have a clip or a reference somewhere that I can see?
Working from memory, I seem to recall Waite, in the first of his two UKEMI videos, doing the roll across his shoulders to finish his fall on the side opposite where his hand first hit the mat. Lovely blending with the mat.

There were several people in Peter Bernath's dojo who did this in exemplary fashion. I regret spending so much time envying them and so little pestering them to teach me. Alas!

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Old 04-14-2004, 03:55 PM   #122
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Mr. Modesto, don't you think that it is better, as uke, to get as far away from nage as possible after taking ukemi. I realize that sometimes you might want uke to get right back up and attack you if you are trying to practice in a more flowing way but standing right back up into nage's face doesn't show awareness, does it??
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:06 PM   #123
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Quote:
Byron Curry (Shomaru) wrote:
Mr. Modesto, don't you think that it is better, as uke, to get as far away from nage as possible after taking ukemi. I realize that sometimes you might want uke to get right back up and attack you if you are trying to practice in a more flowing way but standing right back up into nage's face doesn't show awareness, does it??
Thanks for the post. Sorry, I don't understand how bouncing up correlates with staying close. In the Waite method, you remain in place with your back toward NAGE a moment longer than standard UKEMI. Do I take your meaning correctly?

Don J. Modesto
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Old 04-21-2004, 01:08 AM   #124
Benjie Lu
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Re: soft breakfalls

Quote:
akiy wrote:
Hi folks,

I went and made the following clips available again:

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/softbreakfall1.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/softbreakfall2.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/...breakfall1.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/...breakfall1.mpg

http://www.aikiweb.net/videos/ukemi/miscbreakfall1.mpg

I can't guarantee they'll be up for too long, though, as their download does take up a fair amount of bandwidth. I'll be watching the stats and logs...

-- Jun

Okay!

Thanks for putting them up again. Excellent breakfall technique. I'm rather good at ukemi myself but I'll have to study these since I'm also aiming for near silent breakfalls.

Thanks again

Benjie Lu
Manila, Philippines
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Old 04-21-2004, 10:00 PM   #125
PeaceHeather
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Talking Re: soft breakfalls

Quote:
Lan Powers wrote:
Never tried to roll in "gear" but the first time I dropped down flat with a coif as well as a helm, itwas more like the space shuttle trajectory than anything.......#@%* near straight down.

Lan

All right, just how many SCAdian aikidoka *are* there on this forum, anyway?

("Coif" - dead giveaway, dude. )

Heather, non-combatant
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