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Old 10-06-2000, 09:06 AM   #1
ian
 
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Circle

My early aikido training included soft atemis (to prevent injury), though it was necessary for Uke to 'block' them with a hand to stop himself getting constantly poked in the groin or slapped across the face.

However, on a recent course I noticed the instructor was very averse to Uke blocking atemis (and therefore they were even softer or not even touching). Obviously I found it nearly impossible to get out of years of habitual atemi blocking. But the instructor had a point. He said that it 'closed' the Uke (and it also prevents uke seeing what Nage is doing in many cases). On another point, is it realistic to expect that someone could block an atemi in a real situation. (My view is yes).

What do you think; block an atemi and have a closed Uke or don't block and risk pathetic atemis being exhibited and students developing no quick reaction to small atemis?

Ian
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Old 10-06-2000, 10:40 AM   #2
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To me, I think all of it is important, meaning no one reaction is "right" but many reactions are possible. One of the inherent problems with atemi is that too often I have seen it being taught in such a way that the nage does not understand that there are times when someone on the street may actually know how to turn your act of atemi against you. That's one of the reasons atemi is a "two-edged sword" so to speak. I sometimes teach responses to this kind of situation. The last thing you want is for the roles to reverse and because the nage becomes "too aggressive" with atemi they become the uke.

This brings up another point. When someone's technique will only work because if the uke doesn't respond in a certain way they will get hit, they run the risk of being reversed by someone who knows how to fight.

Larry Novick
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Old 10-06-2000, 12:12 PM   #3
George S. Ledyard
 
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"Blocking"

Quote:
ian wrote:
My early aikido training included soft atemis (to prevent injury), though it was necessary for Uke to 'block' them with a hand to stop himself getting constantly poked in the groin or slapped across the face.

However, on a recent course I noticed the instructor was very averse to Uke blocking atemis (and therefore they were even softer or not even touching). Obviously I found it nearly impossible to get out of years of habitual atemi blocking. But the instructor had a point. He said that it 'closed' the Uke (and it also prevents uke seeing what Nage is doing in many cases). On another point, is it realistic to expect that someone could block an atemi in a real situation. (My view is yes).

What do you think; block an atemi and have a closed Uke or don't block and risk pathetic atemis being exhibited and students developing no quick reaction to small atemis?

Ian
My opinion on this is as follows:
a) all atemis are a way to point out an "opening" in your partner's guard (in fighting I don't care whether he knows he's open or not the atemi isn't there for his benefit). When I started Aikido under Saotome Sensei, if you didn't protect yourself by closing the opening you got your nose flattened. Only a couple of those and you got the picture and covering your "openings" became automatic. As far as I am concerned, training your students not to cover an atemi line is traiing them to be stupid. As you commented, when they don't respond to the atemi the partner has to pull the strike or not do it at all. This is just plain dumb from a martial standpoint (the instructor may have some "spiritual" reason for doing this). Once you stop doing atemi your begin to get unaware of the atemi that can be thrown at any instant by your partner.

As I stated in one of the earlier threads on atemi, Saotome Sensei taught us that if the attacker knew he wouldn't be hit, all techniques are stoppable. It is precisely the need for the partner to be aware of and to praotect himself from the atemi that makes all of the techniques in Aikido that we use to end a confrontation possible.

That said we cxome to the second half of the issue:
b) "blocking" of the atemi also makes no sense. If by blocking you mean merely stopping the incoming blow wothout any additional change in the relationship between the nage and the uke then it is equally stupid from a martial standpoint. At the beginning of our Aikido career we are working on our basics. Training is quite structured in order to make the principles as clear as possible by artificially isolating them for study in a way that would never be so simple in real fighting. The first thing Sensei taught us was that in real fighting, weapons as well as empty hand, there are no blocks. Everything is a strike that we are choosing not to do by way of practice.

In a martial context the attacker will attempt to counter any atemi thrown at him by deflecting and counter striking in one motion (offense and defense are one - a key principle), or he will actually deliver an atemi to the limb delivering the atemi (the Kali folks call this "defanging the snake") and then following that up by moving in to the resulting opening with a followup atemi. When I say an atemi I include any lock that can be applied to a joint in an impactive manner as part of the defelction of the incoming atemi. The Wing Chun and Jeet Kun Do folks will use trapping techniques to neutralize that opponent's ability to counter by tying up his limbs.

Any Aikido practice that is really trying to incorporate martial principles needs to allow for the nage to defend himself in this manner. You can consider your technique to be effective if he tries and is unable to counter your movement using these means.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 10-09-2000, 03:24 AM   #4
ian
 
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follow up question

Thanks for both of those replies - I had not considered it so deeply. I would definately agree that both Uke & Nage being able to produce atemis produces an instinctive reaction to atemis and also produces a posture that reduces exposure of the body to atemis (esp. groin).

As a follow up question; both of you consider a reaction of the uke with the intention of over-powering Nage. I generally take a strong grip but without a locked arm when being an Uke. This results in almost any technique being possible. However some Ukes often lock out their arm/wrist (esp. good karatekas) to prevent anything like kote-gaeshi or shiho-nage occuring; and I have often resulted in turning this into a rockyu or ikkyo (tenkan).

Do you think that there should be more resistance from Uke in various ways to adapt each technique to a more realistic response from Uke (which will obviously vary) - or do you think that this could promote stiffness and not represent the real situation anyway because an atemi in the street would be far more distracting than an atemi in the dojo?

[as an interesting aside, a 'natural' reaction to many aikido techniques can be seen by begining Ukes which often takes a skilled Aikidoka to control effectively e.g. Uke trying to turn onto their back from Ikkyo (irimi), trying to turn under a shiho-nage (mirrowing Nages turn), and suffering a painful wrist from kote-gaeshi (depending how much motion you put into the actual throw)]

My view as an Uke is generally to go with all the techniques which Nage gives me (except really pathetic throws) but point out where I knew I could give resistance or where it wasn't working. If the same mistake occurs several times I resist to illustrate my point - I find this avoids Uke/Nage conflict especially when training with higher grades and/or arrogant Nages.
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Old 10-09-2000, 01:08 PM   #5
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atemi

I stopped "blocking" long ago. Blocks should actually be strikes IMHO. I replaced my "block" with a parry and have found gold in unbalancing uke by doing so.

In regard to doing atemi, just do it! you'll either capture their mind or break their nose, either way you'll realize the opportunity to execute technique and gain control where no opportunity may have existed before.

I uke for Dennis Hooker sensei down here in Orlando on a regular basis. I can tell you first hand (no pun intended) that even when you do protect yourself here, you still get hit on occasion. In other words , yes we do a lot of atemi!

Personally, I can't imagine even trying to execute a technique without it. There are times when demonstrating technique that the atemi is assumed and not really addessed, but remember, it's always there........

"Same Sword, Different Day" - Mongo
-Dan P.
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Old 10-13-2000, 08:52 PM   #6
Richard Harnack
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Atemi at all?

In my early training, we were taught atemi. Uke was expected to protect themself, especially with any atemi thrown toward the face.

However, over the years, we have dropped atemi completely from our training. This is because too often the atemi became a substitute for poor timing.

Also, it has been my sense for some time now that atemi can lead to a very "non-Aiki" mind-set. Perhaps we need to shift from the idea of "quick percussive strikes" (atemi) more toward leading Uke to a safer place.
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Old 10-14-2000, 09:28 PM   #7
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i believe atemi is essential to aikido. and for several reasons it is obvious.
the first is that atemi waza creates space and can be a means of maintaining ma-ai. so atemi can buy u time to get into position for a response
and of of course atemi can be used to rediret uke's attitude and direction. a feigned blow or strike to a unopen face will slow or re direct an attacker. so the atemi can help help nage control and lead ukes' mind. and taking over ukes' mind is key in establishing control and to the final redirection of energy.
and during technique nage should know where atemi waza can or should be applied. atemi waza shows good martial understanding of the event. as we remember aikido is an advanced art by which techniques have been refined to the point whereas the technique can takeover an attack and render it useless. aikido techiques evolved from lethal applications. so its important to know that during technique there are points by which nage can turn the technique into a deadly technique. otherwise technique becomes meaningless; unless nage fully understand why he is doing certain steps during an application of technique. and atemi waza reminds us that in certain points during application of techique that there is the possibilty to do harm or strike uke. so atemi can be used as dare i say check points during technique.
as for blocking atemi, i believe every attempt should be made to cover up. who wants to be hit lol
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Old 10-16-2000, 11:31 AM   #8
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Why do a technique at all?

First, I always try to remember that we're training principles, and not techniques. We combine principles into techniques, and sometimes spontaniously create new techniques, but without the principles, there's no technique.

Having said that, I'm going to comment on the the statement above regarding an uke who clamps down with a stiff arm and is extremely stable. My initial response is why do any technique at all? Imagine a two handed wrist grab where uke just latches on and grips for all he's worth. Where's the attack? He's stable, and he's got a hold of me, but he's not doing anything to my center.

Sure, I could pop him in the nose and start my technique (and that may actually be a very useful way of dealing with that type of situation), but then I become the attacker. Alternately, I could focus on ki and body position and pull of a technique anyway -- if I'm good enough to do so. Now, if he tries to move me, then we've got a technique. Or, if he's just holding onto me so a buddy of his could attck me, then I'll move, probably pop him in the nose, and start a technque.

But, if he's not giving me any energy, then I really don't have anything to work with and actually (depending on the situation) don't have any reason to try to force him into a technique. Yes, atemi can be very useful, but we need to be sensitive to the situation and uke's energy. And anyway, the more energy uke gives us, the more effective our atemi will be. :-)

As uke, we're taught not to block in my dojo. But, that doesn't mean we willingly fly into atemi either! We strive to maintain the attack, but will move the atemi's target out of the way before we get hit. For example, I attack with a straight punch to nage's midsection. He puts out a fist in the way of my face while stepping off line. If I'm going full speed, I've got two choices: move my head back, or get hit. There's no way for me to block while striking if I'm going full speed. Sometimes uke will put up a hand because they know where the atemi is coming from, but then all nage has to do is switch where he applies the atemi.

This gets back to my initial point about training principles. I'm finding that so much of successful Aikido lies in good timing. When we train, we have to keep in mind that we're taking an encouter that can last as little as a portion of a second ("the space betwen breaths") and stretching it out over several seconds. However, no matter how slow we make the encounter, we should still behave as though it is happening at full speed.

I'm not saying that blocking is wrong in every circumstance, but I believe (and I've been taught) that it is not possible to block at the same instant one is executing a direct, powerful attack. The most we can expect to do as sensitive attackers (funny phrase *g*) is to get out of the way of nage's atemi.

My 3.5 cents, :-)
-Drew
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Old 10-16-2000, 02:31 PM   #9
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Re: Why do a technique at all?

Quote:
jxa127 wrote:
I'm not saying that blocking is wrong in every circumstance, but I believe (and I've been taught) that it is not possible to block at the same instant one is executing a direct, powerful attack.
I agree with most of your post, certainly about principles etc. However, I don't agree with the above statement - I don't know if you've trained in any striking arts or not, but this the above statement doesn't hold up even in boxing, and that's a simple example. Granted if a person is going to get attacked on the street, it's probably going to be an all-out attack where a lot of "dojo Aikido" will work just fine, because it's not a fight. A fight is different, and if one doesn't have experience using Aikido in that situation, they will be surprised.

Larry Novick
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Old 10-16-2000, 04:28 PM   #10
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Smile

if an attacker has bared down upon u; thats all the energy u need to begin a response. if some one tries to lock u up with strength, then there are things u can do. an atemi waza would mostly likely help u gain the time needed to do something be it run or do technique. if an attacker has bared down on u then u know where his focus is -where he is grabbing u- a well placed atemi will help lead his mind away and follow the new path that nage can lead him on. as for blocking i dont know do something but dont get hit lol
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Old 10-16-2000, 08:33 PM   #11
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Block while attacking? How?

Sensei Novick,

I think we may be talking about two different but related things. I have trained in a striking art, and I've been in a couple of real world fights. I agree that a good attacker will leave few openings (if any). But that's different than actively blocking during the instant of the attack.

If I'm in the act of throwing a powerful, centered punch, what would I block? How could I block? After all, all of my energy is directed into that punch (actually into and through my opponent). If I see something coming toward my face/midsection/groin, the most I can do is move. If I try to block, then I've switched from attacking to defending, and my attack will suffer -- it will no longer have my full commitment. In fact, even moving breaks my structure and makes my attack less powerful. That's one reason why atemi are so effective at breaking uke's focus.

Remember, I am speaking of the instant of the attack. As soon as that instant passes, I can defend, attack again, or retreat depending on the other guy's actions. In fact, I'd suggest that really effective martial artists who study striking arts are so good at switching between attacking and defending from one instant to the next that it seems they are doing both at the same time. For example: an effective block followed immediately by a fully committed, centered attack could very well be one motion.

And, heck, I'm a beginner, so I'm sure there's a lot about the subject that I don't know. However for me, at this stage in my training, I find it helpful to strive for every attack to be like the one sword cut: no thought for myself, just pure focused attack.

Of course, I also remember the other part of ukemi (safe falling) so that my one, good, completely focused, and committed attack isn't my last.

Respectfully,

Drew Ames
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Old 10-23-2000, 10:32 PM   #12
Richard Harnack
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Circle Obvious reasons escape me

Ma-ai is the appropriate distance between me and my partner. if we are dancing ma-ai can be very close indeed. However, if we are practicing a given technique in the dojo, then the ma-ai needs to be appropriate for the technique being practiced. Thus the ma-ai for a grab is of necessity closer than that for a Yokomenuchi, Munetsuki or Shomenuchi.

Atemi, as a substitute for moving with Aiki and following the principle of Shodo-o-Seisu (Control the first move), does not necessarily mean your technique is going to work. The time spent effecting the atemi is time which could be put to moving in a safer position.

As to someone charging full tilt at you, try this experiment run as fast as you can and throw a punch or strike in the direction you are travelling while you are moving. If you do not fall down first, you will discover it is next to impossible to do so without slowing up or executing your strike at the last moment as you stop. Aikidoka would do well watching a broken field run for a touchdown in football by a receiver for how to deal with such charges.

I suppose we can continue discussing the value of atemi.

My point remains. Atemi take time. Only occasionally are they even "needed".

Aikido still must engender the practice of "Aiki".
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Old 10-24-2000, 07:12 AM   #13
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Wink

with all this said and done, the point is if u dont use atemi in your practice, then u are grossly limiting yourself. to say that training should solely be focused on energy movement, well you are missing a part of the training. i think Aikido is about options and control. the option to soften technique to allow no harm befall uke, but to remain in control. but on the same token have the option to "deal out the business end of a technique." atemi is a much a part of Aikido as energy is. even if you choose not use atemi waza as an Aikido practitioner; you ought to be aware of the possibilty to interject an atemi. atemi is but another asset by which nage can use to control and guide uke. and once again atemi is a good tool to buy time and re-direct uke's focus and intent
the way i feel is that the more tools u have in the shed the better. and all training is good training if u keep your mind open. something is to be had everytime u step on to the mat. i find i never train the same way twice. in our dojo we change partners often, so there is time to sample all the different types of training and the different paces of training. and i value the "snot-knocking" training as much as the soft, more flowing training. as both are essential to my growth in Aikido. its the same i feel about atemi, sometimes its need and should be used and other times it should not be the focus where balance and timing and flow are trying to be taught.
but hey what do i know. and those that know; know
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Old 10-24-2000, 07:18 AM   #14
ian
 
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I would have replied with a wise comment but I thought it best to keep an all knowing silence...

...dam, spoilt it.
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Old 10-24-2000, 09:22 AM   #15
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Quote:
SmilingNage wrote:
to say that training should solely be focused on energy movement, well you are missing a part of the training.
To say that is to not understand Atemi or Aikido.


Larry Novick
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Old 10-24-2000, 10:16 AM   #16
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Striking and Blocking

This is in response to the side discussion taking place as to whether or not it is possible to deliver a fully-committed attack while simultaneously blocking. One side says that if you are fully committed to the attack, then any movement toward a block or a guard weakens your resolve, your power, or your intent. The other side of the argument says that this strike and block idea is exactly what the good fighters strive for.

I study Tae Kwon Do as well as Aikido, and I see some of each side of that argument, but must come down on the side that it IS possible to strike and block at the same time:

First, look at a basic technique (a punch) from Tae Kwon Do or another striking art. The student steps into a very forwardly-powerful front stance, and as the striking hand shoots forward from the hip the opposite hand pulls backward as powerfully to really put the hips and whole body into the technique. There doesn't sound like a lot of guard or blocking ability being maintained there. But that is just the start of it. Because what is a "basic" technique in a striking art except the purest, strongest form of a body movement, executed under controlled, perfect conditions? My TKD instructor references something he was told at a seminar once (sorry, don't know from whom), that even though we will NEVER throw a punch the way that we do a basic punch, the reason that we do the basic techniques is so that on the street, when we bastardize what we know and the other guy bastardizes what he knows, we will be a bit closer to a pure transfer of energy.

So, is it important to study against an all-out attack, where the uke has left himself very little blocking ability? There is a time for this, especially to consider concepts involved. But this is a stylized encounter, and not one likely to be found outside the dojo. But back to the original question. Can we block and punch at the same time?

I think so. In my TKD we teach this as a "blick" (block-kick) or a "blunch" (block-punch). Because what is faster, a block followed by a punch, or a punch delivered as the block makes contact? Really, what is a block except an offensive strike to something attacking you? That is what it comes down to for me: an attitude. I'm not on defense. I'm going on offense twice over. I'm hitting your arm and your face at the same time. In that single-minded attitude I find the same "one-sword-cut" philosophy mentioned above, but without the self-sacrificial fatalism that can be attached to it.

I think that we train to deal with the most centered opponents that we might encounter. In iriminage, the initial cut and balance-taking, if done correctly, is often enough to plant someone on the ground. Because of our uke's mid-technique ukemi, allowing them to save their center and continue on, we as nages are presented with an opponent who has survived that lead, and our technique continues. Similarly, we should train (occasionally) against people who are very centered and powerful in their striking, enough to do this blunching or blicking, so that we see that too.

IMHO

Tim
It's a sad irony: In U's satori, he forgot every technique he ever knew; since then, generations of doka have spent their whole careers trying to remember.
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Old 10-24-2000, 10:33 AM   #17
ian
 
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I would agree with Magma. In boxing the fact that a punch opens up the person necessitates the simultaneous block of such a strike, and punch, and these can be hefty punches. If you punch with alot of hip turn you can also use this hip turn to withdraw your front guarding hand, which can deflect a punch simultaneously (esp. if moving off centre line). I think the difficulty in many fighting situations is really the opposite - trying to get one commited strike (in many cases, even if they are not doing a simultaneous combination, they usually have a very quick follow up). Knives are a particular problem - people will often slash anything that comes towards them rather than just doing a one-off stab.
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Old 10-25-2000, 12:55 PM   #18
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atemi

My sensei made a really cool point the other night. When interacting with someone attacking, you can either;

1. Control uke by entering the mind through the body.
or
2. Control uke by entering the body through the mind.

Personally, I'm working on both methods. Either way, both require atemi.

Be cool!

Dan P. - Mongo

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Old 10-25-2000, 09:00 PM   #19
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Wink

with all due respect sensei, dont para-phrase what i said. then make a smart little comment to follow it. if u got something to say; say it. dont be checky about it. i feel u took what i said and changed its meaning. nothing constructive can be gained from your rather smart, snide remark. u being a teacher i would hope to gain more insite from you. but save the tongue in cheek remarks to yourself.
thanks
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Old 10-25-2000, 09:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
SmilingNage wrote:
with all due respect sensei, dont para-phrase what i said. then make a smart little comment to follow it. if u got something to say; say it. dont be checky about it. i feel u took what i said and changed its meaning. nothing constructive can be gained from your rather smart, snide remark. u being a teacher i would hope to gain more insite from you. but save the tongue in cheek remarks to yourself.
thanks
I did not para-phrase. I quoted you Exactly. I was not snide, in fact, I was very direct about my opinion. The smiley was meant and is usually taken as a way to be direct but not disputive. Take it any way you want to. If you were meaning something else, you didn't say it. At all. If all you can do is respond in this manner, I'm not interested in what you have to say, and you can keep it to yourself as well. If you want to explain yourself, fine. If you want to know what I meant, ask.

With all due respect? Nonsense.

[Edited by Aiki1 on October 25, 2000 at 09:51pm]

Larry Novick
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Old 10-26-2000, 06:22 AM   #21
ian
 
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why does SmilingNage not smile?
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Old 10-26-2000, 08:25 AM   #22
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then u should have taken the time to find out then sensei. i felt u were snide. regardless of how u feel about your comment, its how i see and took it. for some one who talk so much about energy and movement ; u would think u would see your comments were meant to undermind me. then by adding a winking smiley face was a definate tongue in cheek attempt to be cute. while tryn to be a show off and be abusive with your chief instructor position.
your comment was in no way helpful or had any hint on conveying or imparting any help. it was totally devoid of guidance. now in no way did i demean you or your position as a respected sensei . but clearly u didnt extend any apologies or any wish to seek peace. it was a more or less here if u dont like it then tough, but if u want then try to explain yourself then try too.
but i would like to extend my apologies to sensei, i am sorry that this came about.
and ian i am always smilin. even in the heat of battle or debate. the smile never leaves cause i am having fun baby
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Old 10-26-2000, 10:09 AM   #23
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Blocking and Punching or is it Punching and Blocking? I forget....

Hey, for those of you that do not believe a person can block and punch effectively at the same time, I suggest you seek out a Sifu in Wing Chung SP?

I personally do not practice WC on a regular basis however I have several friends and one Aikido sensei that does. Believe me, they can block your strike and hit you very hard at the same time. In fact striking and blocking (parry, trap, whatever you call it) concurrently is what they specialize in. That and they really get serious about center work. Just getting through the warm up is a feat in itself..........

"If it's really tourist season, then why can't we shoot 'em?!" - Orlando Redneck

Dan P. - Mongo


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Old 10-26-2000, 01:20 PM   #24
jxa127
Dojo: Itten Dojo -- Mechanicsburg, PA
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I still don't get it...

...but that's probably my inexperience.

It sounds to me like most of you are talking about somebody responding to a strike with a block while striking at the same time. I'm picturing somebody in the midst of a strike suddenly being confronted with a fist, foot, knee, elbow (etc.). If the attacker blocks, it can only be at the expense of his strike. The strike may still come off, but not with the same intensity as before.

Agree, disagree?

Here's what I'd like to avoid: I was at a camp this summer, and we were working on ikkyo. I started out in the normal way -- with an atemi to the face -- and was surprised when the uke blocked it. There were a couple of problems with his approach, however.

First, the way he blocked it, by simply putting his hand up in front of his face blocked his view of me, and would have been an ineffective block if I had been striking hard; I'd have simply driven his hand into his teeth.

Second, He kept anticipating where I was going to hit him. Had I decided to hit him in the stomach or chest, he'd have missed his block.

For what it's worth, I still believe that we work with principles and not specific circumstances. If an attacker blocks my atemi, then that's just one more connection I can use to resolve our conflict. :-)

-Drew A.

[Edited by jxa127 on October 26, 2000 at 01:33pm]
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Old 10-28-2000, 05:23 AM   #25
George S. Ledyard
 
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Atemis and Blocking

Quote:
ian wrote:
But the instructor had a point. He said that it 'closed' the Uke (and it also prevents uke seeing what Nage is doing in many cases).
If the point here is some Aikido personal transformation thing he may be right. But if we're talking martial arts you'd better be blocking or the nage will break something. As for seeing what uke is doing... Once you are at contact range seeing is over rated. Feel is faster. Blocking isn't really done in response to something you "see" coming but rather at the line of attack that you know is open. You feel the commitment of the attack rather than "see" it.

If you don't believe this try a simple exercise. Stand across from a partner. Have him hold both hands up as if to guard his chest. Inform him that you will hit him (using your finger tips of course). From a relaxed postion flick your fingers between his guard to tap his chest before he can move to stop you. I can do this on a partner who is well trained and hit him five out of six times from my hands in my pockets.

Then allow your partner to lightly touch your wrist. Try to strike him now. You should have trouble. The messages your brain gets from touch process differently from the information that goes in through the eyes, even with "soft" focus. It is much harder to hit your partner once he is touching you.

As for the idea that "seeing" what is coming is more important than blocking... I assume that the person meant that you should see what is coming and move yourself out of the way rather than focus on blocking. The problem here is just a matter of physics. Your body has a lot more mass than my fist. I can accelerate my strike alot faster than you can accelerate your body. Without a protective "deflection" (notice I didn't say block because you shouldn't be blocking) you don't have time to move your body once you are at touching range.


On another point, is it realistic to expect that someone could block an atemi in a real situation. (My view is yes).


Once we get over the idea that we are "blocking" as opposed to "deflecting" we must say yes here. Virtually every martial art is about this, not just Aikido. This is precisely the type of discussion only Aikido people have. Try to deliver an atemi to a partner who is from any other martial art and you will find out if it is realistic.

The real difference is that the well trained Aikidoka or practitioner of any other art won't just protect against the atemi. They will attempt to simultaneously deflect and strike. If you aspire to having technique that is martially valid you must train with this in mind. There are no "defensive" movements in real martial arts. Everything is a strike. Have your partner stop doing those ridiculous blocks that he does by putting his hand in front of his face (hit it hard enough to make his hand smack him in the face) and start trying to deflect your strike and deliver a counter strike. See how that changes your techniques. If you can't handle that, you can't do your technique on anyone from another martial art, guarenteed.
Ian [/b]
[Edited by George S. Ledyard on October 28, 2000 at 05:26am]

George S. Ledyard
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