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Old 04-01-2003, 10:14 PM   #26
bob_stra
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Re: beware....rant ahead

Quote:
paul watt (paw) wrote:
But then again, as Bob noted, I'm evil.

Paul
Yes, you are ;-)

But if you're taking that line of thinking, then perhaps this may be equally applicable to aikido folk.

http://bjj.org/articles/harris-physical.html

http://www.royharris.com/forum/showt...s=&threadid=39
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Old 04-02-2003, 01:32 AM   #27
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
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I have a difficult time coming up with what optimum performance capabilities in Aikido might mean. Since there are no competitions, and no specific goals in terms of performance type, intensity, or duration, what would it be?

It could mean the ability to take ukemi for a shihan on a seminar circuit, or as an uchi deshi I suppose. That looks to be the most physically demanding path among Aikidoka.

As far as optimum peformance of techniques, it seems like things pass over from being dependent upon raw physical qualities at some point and become all about skill development.

The one place where I could see specific training really helping technique would be some kind of explosive training that facilitated increased speed in one's initial 'getting off the line' movement, but even there, the more experienced seem to achieve this easily without seeming to move all that quickly.
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Old 04-02-2003, 02:05 AM   #28
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
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Paul, like the concept of spandex booties, a whole new clothing range for aikido could beckon?

I also now understand why I was having a difficulty seeing why you thought aikido training on its own provided all you needed. You're obviously one of those MA's I like to term a "complete nutter" (wish I could use smileys here) so your form of aikido training is the complete workout needed as you apply more traditional forms of training with an emphasis on aikido - re running mountains with bokken (definite maniac tendencies). I (on the other hand) approach aikido from the more dilettante school of training which means dojo access and time for aikido training is more limited so I supplement the aikido with more easy-access (and much more civilised) forms of training the same muscles/breathing regimes. I think the more important fact is that however you do it, aikido is one hell of a lot easier if you maintain a reasonable level of fitness (however you achieve it) as you can then concentrate on the techniques rather than getting your breath back. I state this with confidence as I'm one of the "god I'm gonna die" wretches on the mat whose myriad vices and essential lack of care for the "my body the temple" has left them flatfooted on more than one occasion.
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Old 04-02-2003, 05:14 AM   #29
paw
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Bob,

Roy Harris is too cool for words. I have several of his instructional video tapes and they are simply the best. I simply cannot say enough good things about him.

Kevin,

Shodokan (Tomiki) folks have competition, and I was hoping one of them would have chimed in by now. Still your point about "what does optimum performance mean" is well taken.

Ian,

You did mean me, right? Not Mr. Smith. In any case....

***** beware the rant *****

Increasingly, I see myself less as martial artist and more as martial athlete. By that I mean that I desire to be a competent martial artist (with all that entails) as well as a competent athlete. I don't see this as a reactionary trend, but actually a return to tradition. I just want to use modern training methods and modern sport science in doing so.

I prefer to do physical conditioning outside of the dojo as "warm ups" and the like tend to be geared towards the lowest common denominator and/or focused on things that have marginal benefit. But that's just me, and I am speaking in generalities. Off the top of my head, I can think of a few instructors who devote maybe a 1/2 hour to warm-ups, and the warm-ups are fun, effective and challenging.

Anyway, that's where I'm coming from this week. I reserve the right to change my mind (or lose it completely as the case may be).

****** end of rant

Although, now that I think about it, do you suppose there would be any money in an aikido-centered fitness program? (Think of the info-mercials, the clothing lines, the instructional videos, the seminars ....)

Regards,

Paul
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Old 04-02-2003, 05:59 AM   #30
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
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Paul (Paw), no I'm afraid I was referring to Paul Smith as the complete nutter, I can only grade you as an occasional loon at present (also agree on the evil bit). But I must say your last rant is looking hopeful for the upcoming obsessive martial artists championships. (also got smileys working at last..)
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Old 04-02-2003, 07:27 AM   #31
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
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Paul,

I don't know about the money part, but I've offered free tutelage in how to do basic strength and anaerobic interval training to the people here at my club. Unfortunately, the response has been quite minimal. If I was in a big enough dojo, and enough people were interested, I would probably try to offer some kind of HIIT classes to dojo mates. Judging from the few I've known, and many of the responses on this board over time, Aikidoka seem to be a pretty tough crowd when it comes to selling the idea of using contemporary fitness methods.

Or, did you mean something more like Aiki-Bo for the masses? If so, set aside a good amount of money for lawyers. I think Tae Bo has one of the highest injury rates of any type of exercise program. Aiki-Bo would undoubtedly be even worse.

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 04-02-2003 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 04-02-2003, 11:00 AM   #32
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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paul watt wrote

Bob,

>Roy Harris is too cool for words. >I have several of his >instructional video tapes and they >are simply the best. I simply >cannot say enough good things >about him.

Nor can I. His tapes a great. Did you know he studied aikido and FMA? Perhaps he will release some tapes on that too.

>Although, now that I think about >it, do you suppose there would be >any money in an aikido-centered >fitness program?

Market is too small. Though, does the name Sonnon mean anything to you ;-) Or Blanks even ;-)
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Old 04-02-2003, 11:43 AM   #33
paw
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Bob,
Quote:
Market is too small. Though, does the name Sonnon mean anything to you
Sonnon is also too cool for words. I have his Grappler's Toolbox series and love it!

Kevin,

I was joking about Aiki-Bo. Although I'm surprised to hear that injury rates in Tae Bo are so high.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 04-02-2003, 12:41 PM   #34
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
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Most people are surprised to hear that group aerobics and classes like Tae Bo have the highest injury rates. Of course, I don't think many people are dying or becoming paraplegic, but chronic injuries abound. Seemingly hazardous pursuits like weightlifting and powerlifting have very low rates by comparison. It makes sense to me, as one doesn't get much individual attention or form feedback in a mass class format, and they are popular with people who are completely out of shape.

I wish I had hard sources for this info, but I don't. I got it second hand from someone who lived with his head buried in such studies, but that man has since died, so I can't even ask.
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Old 04-06-2003, 04:28 PM   #35
paw
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Although not aikido, here's a Nation Strength and Conditioning Association study on MMA

The references are also worth investigating.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 04-07-2003, 03:02 AM   #36
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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Quote:
paul watt (paw) wrote:
Although not aikido, here's a Nation Strength and Conditioning Association study on MMA

The references are also worth investigating.

Regards,

Paul
Do you have a link to the Olympic lifting program as advocated by Lansky in the article?

Also, this is interesting -

http://www.myodynamics.com/articles/pavel.html
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Old 04-07-2003, 06:51 AM   #37
paw
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Bob,
Quote:
Do you have a link to the Olympic lifting program as advocated by Lansky in the article?
I couldn't find it online. When I get a chance, it's on my list of things to get from the library.

Regards,

Paul
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