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Old 03-26-2003, 03:53 AM   #1
WilliamWessel
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Scoliosis and Aikido

Anyone here dealt with having scoliosis or know of a friend/student who has? My doctor expressed a little bit of concern with the impact on my spine from being thrown during aikido.
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Old 03-26-2003, 06:13 AM   #2
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
Location: Somerset Michigan
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Hi, I had curviture of the spine as a child, and still have remnents of it in my body, with one hip being higher than the other and a permanent spasm on one side of my back. I have been practicing for 20 years, sometimes extremely vigorously. Doesn't sound like my problem is as severe as yours though. Learning to take softer ukemi helps, and not doing too many high falls is a good idea.
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Old 03-26-2003, 07:42 AM   #3
WilliamWessel
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Have around a 50 degree curve for those who know a little bit about scoliosis, pretty severe.
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Old 03-26-2003, 07:49 AM   #4
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
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I don't know much about it. Talk extensively with your doctor, or maybe a Chiropractor and a DO could help. Are you lifting weights? That helps bone density tremendously and should be helpful with the pounding from the mat (just don't do too much and bulk-up, which isn't good for aikido).
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Old 03-26-2003, 09:47 AM   #5
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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Re: Scoliosis and Aikido

Quote:
William Wessel (WilliamWessel) wrote:
Anyone here dealt with having scoliosis or know of a friend/student who has? My doctor expressed a little bit of concern with the impact on my spine from being thrown during aikido.
I have congenital scoliosis. In a cosmic twist of fate, I also happen to work with cerebral palsy folks (severe scoliosis is the norm). To top that off, I'm a chiro student. To top it all off, my 12 week research project is into...ah, go on, guess ;-)

(The irony is delish.)

50 degrees is fairly severe. Is there a reason for the scoliosis (I'm thinking...not ideopathic). Do you have to wear a brace? Have you had a spinal fusion? Or is it stuck at 50 and not progessing?

I've not had any problems yet, but my curve is no-where near 50.

I'm not your doctor, so get a second opinion. But technically, a scoliotic spine should be somewhat "stronger" than a normal one (the lateral curve evolves serves as an extra weight bearing spring. Or so the theory goes)

It all depends on exactly the cause and what treatment you've persued. Scoliosis due to something like active Scheuermann's Disease disease...probably not a good time to be taking up aikido. Scoliosis due to congenital hypoplastic rib...not so much of a problem.

Get a second opinion.
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Old 03-26-2003, 11:12 AM   #6
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
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William:

A 50 degree curve is a pretty significant scoliosis. Generally, at that level you are going to have rib deformities and probably pain with potential internal organ compression issues. Usually, that level of scoliosis is fixed with rods unless there is some form of congenital malformation of a vertebra (wedge shaped for example).

I don't know if you have any other problems, but I would take care with hard falls. I usually inform my patients to let their body tell them if they can do a particular activity safely or not. If you have problems after training, then a lower impact form of martial art such as Tai Chi may be better suited to your health.

John Riggs, D.C.
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Old 03-26-2003, 12:10 PM   #7
WilliamWessel
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thanks for the great replies all.

I went to an orthopedist about it recently and they concluded it was ideopathic scoliosis that could only be corrected with surgery. Surgery being somewhat against my beliefs and a general fear of it, I went and got a second opinion from a chiropractor who said with exercise, stretching and seeing a chriopractor could reduce the curve. Probably going to get another opinion from an Osteopath soon =P

Oh and should be getting MRI results in the next week or so to conclude if it truely is ideopathic.

Last edited by WilliamWessel : 03-26-2003 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 03-26-2003, 12:14 PM   #8
rachmass
Dojo: Aikido of Cincinnati/Huron Valley Aikikai
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best wishes on this one William, and it sounds like both John and Bob had excellent advice!
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Old 03-26-2003, 01:16 PM   #9
Avery Jenkins
 
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Re: Scoliosis and Aikido

Quote:
William Wessel (WilliamWessel) wrote:
Anyone here dealt with having scoliosis or know of a friend/student who has? My doctor expressed a little bit of concern with the impact on my spine from being thrown during aikido.
Unless your curvature is severe, it is unlikely that aikido would have an adverse impact. You should see a doctor of chiropractic to have the scoliosis fully evaluated, however.

Avery L. Jenkins, DC, DACBN, CCN
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Old 03-26-2003, 04:11 PM   #10
aikidoc
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Generally, there are a couple of accepted ways of measuring your scoliosis: Cobb-Lippman (measuring the endplates); and Riser-Ferguson (measured using the centers of the vertebra. The most commonly used is the Cobb method since it is the most reproduceable. It has 7 groups of which you fall into group 3 (31-50 degrees) if that is the method used to measure.

Idiopathic scoliosis is the most common form of lateral deviation. Idiopthic curves greater than 20 degrees have 10 times greater incidence of congential heart disease.

Chiropractic has not been shown to decrease the curves to my knowledge although it does frequently decrease the symptoms (some of my colleagues make take issue with this statement but ask them to provide research references). If you are growing this should be monitored regularly to make sure it is not progressing. Exercises do not decease the curve but help with flexibility, posture, and muscular tone.

There are some working with a method of bracing that is claimed to have positive results. Try typing in Scoliosis Recovery System. This "doctor" is an orthotist (makes orthotics). However, he works with chiropractors and uses braces with pneumatic bladders which is an interesting approach. Apparently, from lateral bending film he is able to ascertain how much correction is possible. He then couples the treatment bracing with chiropractic care. You can also find information about him via his name: Arthur Copes (Copes scoliosis recovery system).

This information was exerted from Yockum & Rowe, Essentials of Skeletal Radiology.

John H. Riggs, D.C.

Last edited by aikidoc : 03-26-2003 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 03-26-2003, 09:15 PM   #11
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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Quote:
John Riggs wrote:
This information was exerted from Yockum & Rowe, Essentials of Skeletal Radiology.
$350 well spent!! Must save up to buy that one ;-)

I was talking to Dr Siff a few days before he passed away on the SuperTraining List. He provided me with some info re: treatment of scoliosis with TENS.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Supert.../message/29851

Just for Williams' FYI
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Old 03-27-2003, 04:51 AM   #12
WilliamWessel
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Thanks John, I'm going to look more into this Copes Scoliosis Total Recovery System.
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