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Old 03-17-2003, 02:14 AM   #1
WilliamWessel
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 31
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Bartending/Bouncing

I know there have been many threads about "the street" and real life application but I'd just like to find out if I would get out of Aikido what i'm looking to get out of a martial art. My understanding of aikido is it's a lot of riposting and controling of the "opponent".

I'm considering Bartending as a career and as I'm sure many of you know, alcohol can make for some confrontational situations. So I would like the confidence that if someone should decide to attack me, I will be able to defend myself without all out "fighting back". Or possibly be able to break up fights.

I can't really put into words what i'm asking for other than do you guys think aikido would be a good martial art to look into for these reasons? If not, any suggestions on what other martial arts I should look into?
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Old 03-17-2003, 03:01 AM   #2
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
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If you want immediate practical applicability, check out www.senshido.com .

That guys is great. He's the only one I've seen who does unrehearsed sequences on his tapes in realtime speed.

He used to bounce, amongst other things.

His school is in Canada.
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Old 03-17-2003, 03:22 AM   #3
JJF
 
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If you want long time commitment to a MA and eventually being able to do, what you describe, then Aikido could very well be great for you.

Go to a dojo (or a couple different, if available), talk to the sensei/students in each dojo, and give it a try for a few months. Don't accept the word of anyone on this site as the 'final' truth. We say many things - ocasionally something clever as well - but nothing beats hands on experience in theses matters.

BTW: as long as you don't drink, I should think you would have an advantage over the drunks. What you should really fear are the sober troublemakers, looking for fights instead of beer.

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 03-17-2003, 04:44 AM   #4
WilliamWessel
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also wanna throw in 2 other quick questions onto this thread while i'm thinking about it:

I'm a real little guy (5'7-5'8 and about 130 pounds) I know a lot of martial arts claim that size/strength doesn't matter, but is it true with aikido?

And are the hakama's really as cool to wear as they look =)
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Old 03-17-2003, 05:57 AM   #5
JJF
 
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Dojo: Vestfyn Aikikai Denmark
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Quote:
William Wessel (WilliamWessel) wrote:
I'm a real little guy (5'7-5'8 and about 130 pounds) I know a lot of martial arts claim that size/strength doesn't matter, but is it true with aikido?
I've lost a lot of my physical strength over the past 5-6 years, and my aikido has improved. Maybe coincidence, but the less I use my muscular strength during technique the better it usually is.
Quote:
William Wessel (WilliamWessel) wrote:
And are the hakama's really as cool to wear as they look =)
Oh yes! But they are a pain to put on if you are late for class

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 03-17-2003, 07:04 AM   #6
Johnny Chiutten
Location: Singapore
Join Date: Jan 2003
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William, how much time do you have? maybe after 15-20 yrs of Aikido, maybe you will be able to do these things.

Do you know its almost impossible to stop somebody totally focused on getting you without hurting them.

Practicality "real life" based systems are probably much more suited for your needs.

Here is a few suggestions

www.attackproof.com

www.yangmian.com

www.invisiblemaster.com

sincerely,

JC
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Old 03-17-2003, 09:25 AM   #7
jducusin
 
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Dojo: Open Sky Aikikai (formerly the North Winnipeg Aikikai)
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William,

While I agree with most other posters that getting skilled enough in the actual Aikido techniques themselves takes many years before they can be practically applied to good effect --- depending upon the variety of training within your dojo --- Aikido can teach you a great deal about a number of practical concepts that will help you deal with real combat situations.

I say this because one of the guys I train with used to work as a bouncer, and it was originally because of a situation in which he encountered an aggressor who was considerably stronger than him, that he started taking Aikido. Up to this point, he had felt very secure in his ability to deal with attackers because of his natural size and strength but when that failed him, he decided to look for a way to even the odds in case it ever happened again.

These days, though he no longer works as a bouncer as much, he feels confident that if he were faced with the same situation, he would be able to better deal with it using the skills he's learned in our dojo thus far (such as good atemi, ukemi, and even simply understanding distance, position, and movement in combat).

Hope this is somewhat helpful!
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Old 03-17-2003, 10:00 AM   #8
JSThomas
Dojo: Tri-City Aikikai
Location: Virginia
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Your continued training will be well served if you continue with bouncing, or any event that will require the "hands on approach". I have done security for clubs, special events, concerts. I can honestly say w/o Aikido I would have been a fish out of water.

Sharpening your mind is also a favorable value that training will enhance. As well as learning how to talk to people, with out making them defensive in the first place.

No ego, its hard to find that quality in that line of work. Good Luck.
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Old 03-17-2003, 11:06 AM   #9
Cyrijl
Join Date: Aug 2002
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//BTW: as long as you don't drink, I should think you would have an advantage over the drunks. What you should really fear are the sober troublemakers, looking for fights instead of beer.//

Sorry, but this is false. A drunk can be more dangerous because they can be less inhibited.

The problem with aikido for your situation is that you may pin someone, but they don't stay pinned. In a 'street' or random attack situation the attacker may let off, but ive seen a couple of people in bars who continue aggression out of pride, even drunks don't want to lose face.

If you decide to go with aikido, go to at least three dojo's (if possible) and see how each one is taught.

melior est canis vivus leone mortuo
Bog svsami!!!
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Old 03-17-2003, 11:39 AM   #10
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
Location: Portsmouth
Join Date: May 2002
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England
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Aikido in the Bar??? Absolutely!

Sensei Joe Thambu (6th Dan Yoshinkan) of the Aikido Shudokan in Melborne, Australia, runs seminars on "Restraint and Removal", has been training the security trade for many years, and has a video available on this topic. Plus, we are not talking umpteen years training to conquer.

Joe Sensei is also not a big man. He comes up to about my shoulders, although he he can through me before I know what has happened!!!

The video is available at:

Restrain & Removal, the Aiki Concept.

Osu!
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Old 03-17-2003, 02:52 PM   #11
Sharon Seymour
Dojo: AikidoKIDS! & Katsujinken Dojo, Prescott Arizona
Location: Arizona
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Get a copy of Peyton Quinn's "Bouncer's Guide to Barroom Brawling" for a well-considered approach to your question.

-----
There is more to balance than not falling over.
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Old 03-17-2003, 02:57 PM   #12
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
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I also recommend the work of Marc "The Animal" MacYoung. "How to End Violence Quickly" is a great start.

"The martial arts progress from the complex to the simple."
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Old 03-17-2003, 06:27 PM   #13
WilliamWessel
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Thanks for all the great advice, I found at least 2 dojo's that are close by, possibly 3. Going to probably go check them out this month sometime.
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Old 03-17-2003, 10:36 PM   #14
Bronson
 
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Also be sure to be up front with the sensei. If you tell him your particular concerns he may work with you before/after class on variations that you could use. I know my sensei has worked with some police officers like this. Sometimes he'll use class time to show the different variations...which is cool

Side story:

A friend of mine is a U.S. Customs officer. Back when he was a part time officer he received little to no training in either weapons retention or restraining techniques. Luckily his father had been an MP and was able to show him some stuff and when I visited he also asked me if there was anything I could show him. Being relatively knew to aikido I was hesitant but we came up with a few things that were kinda cool. About a month after visiting he calls me and tells me about an altercation he had at work. He said he and another part time officer got into a heated argument and the other guy took a roundhouse swing at him. He entered in like I showed him and downed the guys arm and flipped him onto his butt. Security cameras caught it all and the other guy got fired. That was with absolutely zero formal aikido training. We just messed around in his backyard with some stuff for one afternoon and he was able to pick up something that worked for him.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 03-18-2003, 01:59 AM   #15
udoka1
Join Date: Nov 2002
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hey man if you find the right dojo aikido will help you 100%. where i train we look into real application 80% of the time. alot of dojos ive seen do a lot more classical stuff that more resembles dancing than self defense. im not putting down the more classical stuff it does have alot of good lessons about connection among other things but has no real use in the streets,or bars. for instance where i train we work alot on chokes, that will calm a drunk or soberman down asap...
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Old 03-18-2003, 05:46 AM   #16
gobzhad
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GUYS! I do NOT train at an Aikido dojo (rather at American Eclectic Style) but I BELIEVE in Aikido and I think the HARDER the style of Aikido the more it "fills the bill" and MORE READILY.
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Old 03-20-2003, 02:18 PM   #17
Bronson
 
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Quote:
I think the HARDER the style of Aikido the more it "fills the bill" and MORE READILY.
Not sure I'd completely agree with this. I don't think you can make sweeping judgments by style like that. I think you'd be better off finding an individual instructor, regardless of style, that will work with you on specific techniques or variations of techniques that are immediately useful for your situation. You could practice them and get comfortable with those techniques relatively quickly. I think you'd be better of with a softer style where the instructor will show you after class stuff that's applicable to your situation than you'd be in a harder style dojo where the instructor won't show you things outside of the normal curriculum, leaving you to figure out application for yourself (of course you can vice versa that whole thing too ).

But that's just me

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 03-30-2003, 01:57 PM   #18
gasman
 
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William,

I have been a bouncer on the weekends on and off for the past year, dealing with drunken norwegians (perhaps the worst drunks in the world, save the finns or swedes).

The edge for me lies in aikido, both form and philosophy. By never adopting the aggressive stance, the side of the agressor, I have been able to do my job without fighting. Apart from one time: In hindsight I probably could have avoided that one too.

aikido gives me positioning, energy and flow. if someone pushes me i can reposition myself to their disadvantage and usually that is enough to end it. In a fraction of a second, even before the trouble has started.

I have but once or twice been forced to forcibly escort guests to the door. Talking and walking works so much better.

it is a great tool, in addition to all the other tools you will need. diplomacy, tact, respect, tolerance and MOST IMPORTANTLY: Patience. Lots of patience.

Last edited by gasman : 03-30-2003 at 02:00 PM.
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