Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-14-2003, 03:35 PM   #1
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
judgement & reaction

At 6:30 this morning I was badly disturbed by quotes in two postings I read. As i consider a major part of my aikido training to be Keeping my Big Mouth Shut, I decided to not react as impulsively as I would have liked, a decision I have made many times in the short while I've been on this forum.

The first one was a member dissing another member for having an abrasive personality. While yes, the member referred to does indeed have an abrasive manner, does anybody have the right to judge that this is Wrong? Should I bow out of this forum immediately as well, as i am perfectly aware that i also have an abrasive personality, which is one of the very reasons i practice aikido.
It is a huge effort to learn how to present one's opinion in a way that is as "holographically" inoffensive as possible, i know, this has been a process that has taken me through a lot of intense and intensive practices. But the first thing i had to realize in order to change ANY of my behaviors, were that I had to recognise and Accept them as part of myself.
the people who know me well accept me as I am also accept that what I sound like is not perhaps what I really mean. I don't Mean to sound cynical or negative or angry or intimidating but that is how i am percieved. So I come to aikido to learn how to communicate effectively.

The second quote referred to "hippie wierdos who come to aikido for reasons other than self defense."

Oh darn, another strike against me.How will i ever fit in to the aiki community if my incentive to practice is specifically on a psycho-spiritual basis, i am there to specifically learn how Not to fight. How Not to start an argument every time someone says something which is incorrect, inaccurate or if I simply have a differing opinion. How Not to be percieved as the aggressor even when i am defending myself. How to make myself understood without having to shove myself down somebody's throat.

But it seems that these are not valid reasons to train. And that i am the Wrong kind of Person to study aikido. How can there be harmony when too many people are deciding who should and should not undertake any given practice.

i've been combing the archives to find out if there has been anybody "like me" who has been where I am and gotten to the place i would like to be, and haven't found any...but it would be nice to know that its OK to be an abrasive, argumental, confrontational, honest spiritual seeker and still practice a "martial art".

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2003, 03:58 PM   #2
Michael Neal
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 600
Offline
There is plenty of judgement by "hippies" against those who do not practice Aikido the way the like as well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2003, 04:05 PM   #3
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
Smile

Sometimes we all lose sight of this simple truth ...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpeg
Views:	283
Size:	36.7 KB
ID:	106  

Last edited by shihonage : 03-14-2003 at 04:07 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2003, 04:23 PM   #4
Michael Neal
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 600
Offline
I mean,

There is plenty of judgement by "hippies" against those who do not practice Aikido the way they like as well.
Quote:
Sometimes we all lose sight of this simple truth ...
I feel guilty for laughing at this ... it is pretty damn mean. Good point though.

Last edited by Michael Neal : 03-14-2003 at 04:25 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2003, 10:30 PM   #5
DCP
 
DCP's Avatar
Dojo: Inaka Dojo
Location: Land of Lincoln
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 135
Offline
Sometimes you have to categorize certain things under the heading "not my problem."

It doesn't matter what you do or why you do it, someone somewhere will find fault with it.

So you're abrasive. A gem cannot be polished without friction.

So you're a hippie type. O'Sensei was a hippie type (I'm sure that statement will tick some people off, but wasn't he speaking about peace and love before the "hippies"?)

Human beings are a work in progress from birth until death. We need differences in order to learn and grow. Accepting reasonable differences and resolving conflict shows maturity. If people cannot accept these differences, they haven't reached that stage of maturity (therefore, not your problem).

But, then again I may be wrong . So then you need to get stay out of the dojo and stop visiting this forum you abrasive hippie freak!
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 11:01 AM   #6
Jim ashby
Dojo: Phoenix Coventry
Location: Coventry, England
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 303
Offline
Aleksey. I am very sad that you would put this image out. You or I am one chromosome away from being in this race.

Vir Obesus Stola Saeptus
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 11:33 AM   #7
Erik
Location: Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,200
Offline
Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev (shihonage) wrote:
Sometimes we all lose sight of this simple truth ...
Sometimes, though, it's fun to argue, but arguing with Neil Mick does feel that way at times.

Last edited by Erik : 03-15-2003 at 11:36 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 11:40 AM   #8
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
um, would i now be considered egotistical if i politely request that this thread please stay on topic? these are Very Serious issues for me, even though i may have sounded sarcastic and/or cynical.

thank you

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 11:58 AM   #9
tedehara
 
tedehara's Avatar
Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 826
Offline
Quote:
tedehara wrote:
I would hate to spent my time practicing self-defense, when I could have been learning Aikido.
Balancing out the viewpoints.

It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
About You
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 12:02 PM   #10
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
I can understand your concern about people dissing others. However, the person of the abrasive personality had just attacked the person making the comment. He has a history of being very judgmental and attacking people on a regular basis. I hope this does not offend you but this person basically got back a lot less than he has dished out.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 12:03 PM   #11
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
I don't see what's to get "Very Serious" about. So some people said mean things about you... so what? Unless someone is hazing you or throwing you out of your dojo, try ignoring it. Does everyone in the world have to like you and think you're wonderful?

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 03-15-2003 at 12:05 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 04:01 PM   #12
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Kevin please read my post gain. I never implied that anybody has said anything about Me.

John, i know this person has said a lot of insensitive and cruel sounding things, yet he (as well as one former member) has some extremely sensible and valid points to make.

my point is that i Want to change the way i present myself or make the point i am trying to make. And I am wondering if anyone out there has achieved what i am attempting.

Some people think its the other guy who needs to change- so I can try to change the world's negative perception of who I am and create a huge struggle against the rest of the world when they disagree, or I can take that struggle within myself and change the way I relate.

Thats what I want aikido to be for me. The place I can, i guess be my own uke.

somwtimes people are percieved as attacking when they are only trying to Share.maybe it would be good practice to , before jumoping down somebody's throat in self defense, we ask first--is this person intentionally attacking or does it only sound that way?

when I am able to ask myself that question in any situation where i feel threatened, before i "hit back" that is what i consider aikido.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 04:37 PM   #13
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Offline
I reread the post. Seems like a minor misinterpretation that doesn't detract from my point - there are about two sentences about who said what to whom, then reams of high-drama stuff about you and your beleagured feelings. Seems unreasonable to me to demand others take such solipsistic bellyaching Very Seriously. I thought the stuff about making fun of retarded people was more interesting.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 05:28 PM   #14
Michael Neal
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 600
Offline
Quote:
The first one was a member dissing another member for having an abrasive personality. While yes, the member referred to does indeed have an abrasive manner, does anybody have the right to judge that this is Wrong?
Yes, anybody does have the right to judge that this is wrong, we have the right to judge anything we want.

I will make a judgement that I am sure you will be displeased with. I think people who study Aikido and completely leave out the "martial" aspect are ruining Aikido. I think maybe they should start their own religion/empty exercise thing and call it something like "granola do" and leave us all alone.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 06:06 PM   #15
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
that is an opinion. you are entitled to your opinion.i also have an opinion. and i shall keep it to myself.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 09:46 PM   #16
Michael Neal
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 600
Offline
Yes you are entitled to your opinion and you should not get upset so easily about things posted here.

Believe me, if we all had the same opinion I guarantee this forum would be very unsuccesful.

I think alot is misinterpreted over the internet because you can't see the persons actual demeanor. Some people may think some things are said with anger and disdain when they are not.

There are plenty of people here that are abrasive on occasion and this definately includes me. But if you talked to me in person my words would not seem so abrasive.

But maybe this is different with other people here.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 10:04 PM   #17
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Jo:

I would call making threats a fairly obvious form of attacking. I have real thick skin but when someone operates off an emotional opinion and attacks people without justification, especially when historically inaccurate, it is difficult to just let it go by. Personally, I could give a damn what the person says to me since I operate under the philosophy that how you talk about and treat others says a lot about you as a person and little if nothing about the person you are dissing. However, in an aikido forum it would be nice to see people follow the rules suggested by Jun to treat our fellow aikidoka with a certain amount of courtesy. You don't have to like what they say and a good argument can be a learning experience for everyone involved. However, to make attacks on the person and slander the other person is in my opinion immature and irresponsible. Many of us like to chat about topics of interest without all the static. True I cannot be in the mind of others and speak for their intent. However, words frequently do not leave much to the imagination. My 2 cents.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 10:40 PM   #18
Michael Neal
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 600
Offline
I am wondering where all of this is coming from anyway, what posts and by who are talking about here?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2003, 10:53 PM   #19
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 890
United_States
Offline
One by me, another by Ian Hurst (I think ?).
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2003, 01:12 AM   #20
Kelly Allen
Dojo: Friends Dojo
Location: Winnipeg
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 190
Offline
is this the post ?

Is this one of the posts your talking about? If it is, I was merely telling Mike that insulting me, my Country, and just about everyone else he disagrees with in this forum will only result in him being ostrisized. That wasn't a diss. It was merely the trueth. This applies to everyone who is insulting when their opinions are not agreed with.

Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote: No Kelly. But you are behind the times — this thread has been dead for weeks. Where've you been? Shovelling snow or learning how to spell?

Kelly Allen wrote:

Lets see here. From the 6th which was the last post I saw, to the 13th which was the post you are refering to, is far from weeks Mike. I may be a poor speller, but you're a terrible mathimatician.

And a thread is only finished when people lose intrest in the topic. Your insults serve only to show people on this Forum what kind of abrasive personality you have, and ultimatly they will never take you seriously, and begin to ignore you. Now if you'll excuse me I have to go shovel some snow.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2003, 09:45 AM   #21
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
No it was most certainly not the thread Kelly is referring to..

I believe yes that it was Aleksey who claimed that , and these are MY words, not a quote but My inference that "people with abrasive personalities are not good people".

And yes. Aleksey, the other was Ian about the hippies. Thank you for finding them for me!

I was not denying that the man has said some extremely insensitive things.

But several people have also said some pretty insensitive things on this thread

. And that I , being a person with not only an abrasive personality , also an uncontrollable temper, feel that I am being judged as "not a good person".

so actually this is an experiment for me to observe my own behavior and reaction after putting myself in the line of fire.

Some (insert negative quality here) people are trying to be funny, some are trying to be smart. I am trying to be understood without resorting to any of the habits or characteristics that make me a "bad person". To allow this to be a discussion instead of an argument or worse.

But I am not in any way defending anybody's cruelty or insensitivity.I am just saying that it disturbs me that people are judged by how they present themselves, whatever the reason.

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2003, 03:16 PM   #22
creinig
Dojo: Yoshinkan Würzburg
Location: Würzburg (de)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 68
United Nations
Offline
Quote:
Jo Adell (Qatana) wrote:
But several people have also said some pretty insensitive things on this thread
"On this thread" as "on the thread we're currently 'in'"? No. IMHO it's pretty hard to find threads (on any topic) on the internet that contain less "insensitive things". Don't take *anything* said on the 'net too seriously - that's very bad for your blood pressure
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2003, 12:08 AM   #23
PhilJ
 
PhilJ's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Bukou
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 240
Offline
Jo,

I think it's hard not to judge people when they share their thoughts. It makes us human. It's hard for me to see some kinds of posts too, where it seems like someone is being abrasive or harmful in a deliberate sense.

Aikido is a tool to me, not an answer book. It teaches us tons of great ways to handle our bodies and our minds, but doesn't force us into compliance. I was once told, "When you are told to be a certain way or do a certain thing, you stop being an adult. You're now a child." Aikido is a great tool to have in your pocket.

People will be people. They will pick on someone, telling their 'victims' they are "such and such". When it comes time to tell the 'bully' something, they resent it, not fully realizing the irony. They feel like a child without understanding they just did something similar.

We can, however, be adults. We can be frank and honest and sincere, but we should never sacrifice our own humanity (or others') for the sake of 'making a point'. This is not about victory, and not about winning, right? It's about restoring harmony and humanity to our 'attackers' and ourselves. I wonder if that's the budo O'sensei had in mind.

*Phil

Last edited by PhilJ : 03-17-2003 at 12:19 AM.

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2003, 03:50 AM   #24
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
Yep, I'm one of the culprits

Jo, if sorry you found my post so offensive. It was actually a joking reference to the fact that most of my association (including myself) are less "budo" than many who post here. We're a Ki aikido group and as such, I've found certain other styles rather sniffy about our "dancing" style and lack of embracing in totality "the warrior spirit". Rather than get annoyed, I've happily embraced their mistaken view and have had a laugh at my own expense more than once in these forums.

However, I would also like to ask whether you'd first checked any previous postings by me or my fellow dastard, to get a clearer view of the person and context. You yourself said

"I am just saying that it disturbs me that people are judged by how they present themselves, whatever the reason."

People in these forums normally will not meet and only show their character in a succession of posts, a single posting may not be the best way of "judging" someone.

I believe that at no point have I ever suggested there is only one reason to train aikido. Indeed, in the very post you refer to I was trying to indicate that self defense and aikido, while they may be linked, are not the only reasons to train. The inverted comments around the phrase you objected to were there in place of the smileys so many use as, unfortunately, these do not display on my machine.

This is a mistake I have also made. My inability to see the smiley in a previous posting by TomE led me to answer what was a jokey response as a facetious reply and react accordingly and, as it turned out, excessively.

I make no apologies for my sense humour, but I take your point that I must be unambiguous in future posts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2003, 09:36 AM   #25
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Thank you Ian for that clarification. As i said, i read that posting at 6:30 AM so probably didn't even notice "quote" marks.

Sometimes, even with quotes and smilies, words on a screen/page can be misinterpreted. i know from experience, even spoken word can be heard "wrong". like even people who know me very well sometimes think that when i make a "positive" statement that i am being facetious because they expect everything i say to be caustic and cynical.

i am finding it a bit amusing that some folks who are of the opinion that there is only One Way and One Reason to practice Aikido want us all to be open -minded about combining techniques.now, if i had several different martial arts under my (white) belt and was in a self-defense situation, would i worry about combining any tools i have at my disposal to get out of it? but in the dojo, if i'm there for Aikido, i will Do Aikido...

and if i may allow my admittedly huge ego to make a comment, i think i did some Aikido here on this thread....

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido of Northern VA Seminars - Doran-sensei in Northern Virginia, March 2015



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido: The learning of natural movement Mike Hamer General 517 12-12-2006 04:15 PM
Spontaneous Aikido Reaction Fanis Chatziapostolou General 26 12-05-2005 05:36 AM
Games to Test your Reaction Time Arianah Websites 0 11-28-2001 09:22 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:47 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate