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Old 02-07-2003, 09:36 AM   #1
Kevin Masters
Dojo: Woodstock Aikido
Location: Mount Tremper, NY
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 85
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Contientious Objector

With this war looming and a bill actually being brough before congress to reinstate the draft, what do you think if any effect being a martial artist would have on one's contientous objector status?
Do you suppose that a draft board would disqualify someone who is practicing a "violent" activity in his spare time?
I was just curious about your opinion or any experience you may have had in this arena.
Thanks

Kevin
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Old 02-10-2003, 11:59 PM   #2
warriorwoman
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 50
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Conscientious Objecter

Are you involved in a "violent" activity or are you training in an activity which stresses conflict resolution on an interpersonal level?

janet dtantirojanarat

www.warriorwoman.org

janet dtantirojanarat
www.warriorwoman.org
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Old 02-11-2003, 11:43 AM   #3
Kevin Masters
Dojo: Woodstock Aikido
Location: Mount Tremper, NY
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 85
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I only meant that from one point of view a practicing martial artist could be considered one who is engaged in a "violent" activity.

Would it be contrary to on one hand be morally opposed to engaging in armed conflict and on the other be training as a martial artist?

I enjoy Aikido, but I don't feel like blowing things up and killing people outside of my playstation.

Kevin
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Old 02-11-2003, 12:10 PM   #4
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 225
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Quote:
Kevin Masters wrote:
I only meant that from one point of view a practicing martial artist could be considered one who is engaged in a "violent" activity.

Would it be contrary to on one hand be morally opposed to engaging in armed conflict and on the other be training as a martial artist?

I enjoy Aikido, but I don't feel like blowing things up and killing people outside of my playstation.

Kevin
Morally, Kevin, the question you pose can only be answered by you. Do you feel that Aikido is a violent activity?

Violence is willfully, or accidentally, causing damage to a person or thing. Since most ppl train in Aikido to find alternatives to violence, I see no contradiction in being opposed to engaging in armed conflict, yet practice a martial art (even, one more violent than Aikido).

In fact, the lessons I learned in Aikido were part of my decision to try to go to Palestine, and be an international observer to limit the violence, going on there. The Israeli Customs discovered the reason for my visit and locked me in a cell, for 23 hours.

While there, I drew a large peace mural, in oil pastel, on the cell walls. It depicted a group of Palestinian women and children, dancing around a tree that said "peace," in several languages (other detainees in that cell, from other countries, helped me out with the names).

So, IMO, you decide what role Aikido plays in your life, but it is hardly contrary to be opposed to war, and practice a martial art.

Whether or not
Quote:
Kevin Masters wrote:
a draft board would disqualify someone who is practicing a "violent" activity in his spare time
is a totally different question, mired in legal and policy issues. I've provided a few links below that might help:

http://co.quaker.org/

http://www.objector.org/

http://www.sss.gov/FSconsobj.htm

Good luck!
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Old 02-11-2003, 02:41 PM   #5
MAH
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Neil Mick wrote:
In fact, the lessons I learned in Aikido were part of my decision to try to go to Palestine, and be an international observer to limit the violence, going on there. The Israeli Customs discovered the reason for my visit and locked me in a cell, for 23 hours.

While there, I drew a large peace mural, in oil pastel, on the cell walls. It depicted a group of Palestinian women and children, dancing around a tree that said "peace," in several languages (other detainees in that cell, from other countries, helped me out with the names).
Did you sing cum bye ya with the Palestinians too?

Thanks,

MAH
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Old 02-11-2003, 03:21 PM   #6
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 225
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I am way ahead of you here, Mike. Your continued abuse on aikidojournal got you a warning and a boot; I have already reported your post to the editor.

If you cannot discuss an issue with civility, you can expect the same treatment here.
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Old 02-11-2003, 04:58 PM   #7
MAH
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Wrong Mick. I didn't get the boot. Just a warning. If civility means agreeing with you, then I am uncivil as can be.

Thanks,

MAH
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Old 02-11-2003, 05:55 PM   #8
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 225
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But Mah, you can be as civil, or "uncivil" as you like, now.

Unlike aikidojournal, this site has an "ignore" feature.

So go ahead! Rant away; I can't see you, anymore.
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Old 02-11-2003, 06:22 PM   #9
MAH
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Neil Mick wrote:
But Mah, you can be as civil, or "uncivil" as you like, now.

Unlike aikidojournal, this site has an "ignore" feature.

So go ahead! Rant away; I can't see you, anymore.
Mick,

Why are you so afraid to debate me or discuss your radical views? Yes, I admit to you right now that I got out of hand on the other board and I apologize. But I don't think calling you a radical is off base looking at some of the things you have said. Talking about going over to Palestine and spending time in jail over there while sketching a peace symbol? Don't you think that is a little bit extreme?

Thanks,

MAH
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Old 03-01-2003, 06:32 PM   #10
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
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If you are really seriously exploring the conscientious objection...then you should review the regulations and criteria the government has set forth to determine CO status.

I have reviewed them and can find them for you if you are interested.

Being in the military, and a buddhist I have more than explored my own particular feelings and philosophies on the subject.

It is a very touchy subject and one that must be handled on a personal level.

I think you must be very careful and think long and hard about it.

I have taken a personal vow to try and not kill anything that is living. To include animals and any organism where possible. That is why I am a very devout and strict vegetarian.

However, I do recognize that there are instances in which killing cannot be avoided and must be done to stop a greater harm from occuring. I hope I never have to kill anyone or anything ever again.

I do wonder sometimes if it is not slightly hippocritical to take the stand of a CO and live at the benefit of those that created the environment of freedom that we purport to have in the U.S. and do some of the consumptious things that we do as Americans, which have ultimately created this imbalance in the world.

I would submit that if you are a CO, then you have a duty as a citizen to use your life to make this country great in someway by joining the peace corps, get involved such as what Neil has tried to do and make a difference to make this country and the world better. There are lots of ways.

But being a CO and sitting back in your lazy boy looking at your SUV, while you watch cable TV in surround sound. means you just don't want to fight or play ball and simply live on the sacrifices that others have made and that is not a Conscientious Objector, that is a Lazy Coward. I have no place for people like that in my book.

I really hope they do not institute the draft. Many reasons. But mainly I like the fact that in this country we have enough people willing to serve in the military, that those who wish not to, have the freedom to do so.

But, that does not mean you have the freedom of no responsibility as a citizen.

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