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Old 02-06-2003, 12:42 AM   #1
IceLandElf
Dojo: Avalon Arts Center, Fair Oaks CA
Location: Sacramento, California
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Freaky! Aikido used by its self, in a real life situation

Hi guys, im very new to Aikido and trying to learn as much as I can about it. I have only been to a few classes, and already im amazed with it. When showing some videos of Aikido training to my girlfriend, she replied with "looks fake, like wwf". And when showing them to my friend he said "looks staged, I would like to see it used in a real attack situation". Im not questioning Aikido, but I would like to know if and how many of you out there have been put in a situation where your Aikido training needed to be used in the phisical sense. Any one?
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Old 02-06-2003, 03:41 AM   #2
Kelly Allen
Dojo: Friends Dojo
Location: Winnipeg
Join Date: Jan 2003
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PPl that don't understand the mechanics of Aikido tend to think it's fake because the technics look too easy. It is also my experience that you can not convince that person otherwise unless two conditions exist at the same time. 1: you have enough experience and confidence to handle an attack. and 2: the person your trying to convince is stupid enough to attack you to get you to try to prove it.

My advice to you is to not worry about what other ppl think. It will be about 6 months before you are able to do nage and ukemi technics with confidence and fluidity. And it just keeps getting better from there. Your friends will see the changes in you in confidence and carrige and all roud fitness. Then they will be paying attention to what it is you are doing.

If you want to be the attention of a party show them a few cool KI tricks.

I have never had to use aikido technic to protect myself. I hope I never do. But at this point (I have been training for a year) I would feel confident if I were in a one on one situation that I would be able to immobalize an apponent.

Last edited by Kelly Allen : 02-06-2003 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 02-06-2003, 05:02 AM   #3
DaveO
Dojo: Great Wave Aikido
Location: Alberta, Canada
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 543
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Hello, Robert!

Your concerns - or rather, that of your friends, are common and well-founded. Aikido, when performed right, is so effortless and fluid it looks like uke (or Tori) must be helping things along. That's not the case, however, as you're learning by now. Aikido is effortless because it makes effective use of physics, geometry and anatomy to defeat an attacker, not brute strength and speed.

This might help a bit: During class last night, I wound up helping a newer student while we were practicing zempo-nage tenkan; if you don't know it, it's a devilish little technique that looks like you're just turning and waving one hand up and down a bit - but sends uke flying Superman-style across the mat. It's so nasty because it's incredibly effortless, totally unexpected and potentially very dangerous - the attacker could easily land on and break his neck. Which is why, of course, uke rolls.

(The new student was rolling before our hands even touched - very common to new ukes; he was missing the point a bit.) You can tell your friends what I told him, "This isn't a team sport; the only reason uke rolls is to save his own neck."

I agree with Kelly too; don't worry about your friends, it doesn't matter if they believe it works or not. If they don't believe it, invite them out to the dojo to see it done real-time; who knows, they might be convinced and sign up.

(Of course, you could be a real jerk like me; learn nikkyo and then go back to your doubting friends, hold out your hand and say 'shake!' heh heh heh.)

As for my own experience in Aikido, I'm a relative newcomer myself, I've not had the need to use it 'on the street' yet, barring a situation a few months ago I was able to diffuse, but I've been a soldier of the Canadian Armed Forces for most of my life; I'm a skilled fighter and know what works. Believe me; Aikido works, even if mine doesn't work very well - yet.

I hope that helps to answer your questions; and that of your friends.

Dave

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 02-06-2003, 09:34 AM   #4
SeiserL
 
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Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
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IMHO, it is hard to "show" some one Aikido. It does look "fake" and "staged". It is in the experience of Aikido that one understands. When I have applied a gently Kote-gaeshi and people feel their spines move, or I gently apply Nikkyo and their knees buckle, they tend to appreciate it more.

BTW, I have never used Aikido by itself in a real life situation. My fighting days were a long time ago and I was a lot dumber.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 02-06-2003, 03:23 PM   #5
Nick P.
 
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Invite the doubters to a class (check with your Sensei first!), and see how "real" it seems to them when they have no idea what hit them...and try not to gloat.

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Old 02-06-2003, 04:45 PM   #6
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Quote:
Nick Pittson (Nick P.) wrote:
Invite the doubters to a class (check with your Sensei first!), and see how "real" it seems to them when they have no idea what hit them...and try not to gloat.
They'll start making fun of the attacks, end up harassing students, boxing the instructor and knocking him out, and then being tackled by some 5th kyu football player who proceeds to beat the crap out of them.

... Or, they will be impressed. And stuff.
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Old 02-06-2003, 08:52 PM   #7
JW
 
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I don't think taking them to the class would do much..I am not insulting your class, I just don't think any one class could ever convince a beginner that it "works," but that's just my opinion. They probably WOULD just make fun of the attacks.

To tell the truth, I actually partly agree with their point of view--what they see is that in a real attack, things would not necessarily progress the way they do in any single technique that we do--it would only sometimes turn out that way, and only provided uke is acting the way that that technique depends on. So yeah it is staged if done correctly--nage throws IN RESPONSE to the attacking energy from uke, and that motion and intent from uke DETERMINES what techniques can come out. So, when we practice any given technique (non-jiyuwaza), we are staging the scene by giving uke a role to play.
--JW
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Old 02-06-2003, 08:59 PM   #8
JW
 
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oh yeah back to the question..

that having been said, there are old threads on this forums board where people tell great stories of times when they nicely pulled off techniques outside the dojo..

so I guess if you are good at following uke, aikido techniques work real well in Real Life.

I don't have time to look for the threads myself, but I guess they are buried in the "general" section of the forums, if you want to look.. they are probably called stuff like "effective in real life" or whatever. I remember reading cool stories.. sorry that I have none myself.. er I mean happy to say I have none myself.. ?

--JW
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Old 03-14-2003, 12:39 PM   #9
IceLandElf
Dojo: Avalon Arts Center, Fair Oaks CA
Location: Sacramento, California
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hey, this is roberts gf and hell probably get mad at me for posting under his name, but i was reading what you guys said, and i went to one of his classes and watched

and its all very interesting and im glad he found something he really likes but i was also thinking, at first when hed show me i always had to hold his wrists and thought, attackers dont just hold your wrist, so how could you fend off an actuall attacker? but later theyd actually do moves to where someone was attacking them and i was way impressed at how little you had to do to knock down an attacker, but was also complicated at the same time
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Old 03-14-2003, 01:43 PM   #10
John Boswell
 
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Hey Robert's GF!

You would think that grabbing a wrist or two is not an attack, and you'd be right. If you follow through on the thought of WHY they are grabbing your wrist, you'll see its for leverage or intimidation or control or somekind. They'll likely follow it up with a punch, kick or just to drag you away.

Actually going in for a couple intro sessions and doing some techniques for yourself opens the door to ideas on why Aikido is trained the way it is and also you see how it really is effective despite the way it "looks". Which is something I happen to like, btw. If it looks fake to people who don't understand, the more they'll underestimate my ability and probably even give me the advantage... like stupidly grabbing my wrist to "prove" how fake I am. And I pity the fool that does... he'll drop in one second, bet on it.

PS: I won't tell Robert you posted under his name if you won't.

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Old 03-14-2003, 02:52 PM   #11
Nick P.
 
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NOW that you have watched, time to jump in!

Do it!Do it! DOITDOITDOIT!

My wife came to my 3rd or 4th ever class (five years ago), and never returned. 3 years later she gave it another try, and is hooked. Last year she came to Japan with us to get her 4th-grade (yonkyu).

I often wonder what it would be like to train with her if she would not have taken a 3 year "break" from her training, and we were both ikkyu...and then remind myself how glad she DID take a break, otherwise she would consistently kick my but. Seriously.

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Old 03-14-2003, 11:23 PM   #12
aikido_fudoshin
Join Date: May 2002
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Take a look at the thread "How do you define Atemi", this may help you understand that its more important to apply the principles of Aikido, rather than trying to apply the basic techniques. Aikido may look pretty in the dojo, but when it comes time to defend your life, its the principles that matter.
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Old 03-15-2003, 02:40 AM   #13
dezire
Dojo: Aikido Club "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
Location: Subotica
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Hi, I just want to tell you what everybody here is thinking but have forgotten to tell you: Don't go looking to try your techniques or to prove yourself! If there comes a time when you have to use aikido you will, and as you get to the more advanced levels that will come as a reflex.

You know everybody says that aikido is the art os self-defence, and that there is no attack in it. And they are right, up to a moment. We never attack or provoke an attack, but when somebody invades our maai (our private space, about a lenght of your arm) you don't wait for an attack. So if anybody gets in your face to provoke you (you know how fights start, by breathing down each others noses) either push him away to make sure you can "forsee" an attack and do a technique, or take him down by a direct throw.

All this I have said in case your friends try to test out you. And the first part is for you since all begginers want to prove not just to those who don't belive them, but to themselves too that aikido works. If you go out to prove yourself aikido WILL NOT work, or it will, but not as it is meant to.

Crnjakovic Zeljko, nikyu
AK "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
Subotica, Yugoslavia

http://www.geocities.com/clubhikari
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