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Old 10-25-2000, 06:54 PM   #26
RICK
Location: TN.
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[quote][i]BC wrote

By the way, I would NEVER go into a seiza position in front of any experienced martial artist who was attacking me.


BC, hamni handchi is an excellance source of training.

Rick Fielding
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Old 10-25-2000, 06:59 PM   #27
Nick
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first thing that is taught at my dojo against a mune or men tsuki- don't try to catch it. I tried a couple times, and lost whatever I might have gained because by catching it, I was far away from him, making the lead harder, and when my sensei really wanted to make the point, they just came at me so if I tried to catch it I would miss completely...

something like that really comes into play with something like teppo-tori. you have to create your own momentum, and grabbing their wrist and trying to lead them will, in most cases get you shot.

Or so I think...


---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 10-25-2000, 07:06 PM   #28
Nick
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[quote]RICK wrote:
Quote:
[i]BC wrote


BC, hamni handchi is an excellance source of training.
Agreed, but the idea from it is that seiza can be a rather inoppurtune position... more people would be content to kick you in the head if they saw u in seiza rather than try and grab a shoulder or reach down to punch you.

Not to mention the time it would take and the openings you would create for yourself.

as a sidenote rick, are you familiar with the terms ma-ai and re-ai?

---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 10-25-2000, 07:30 PM   #29
RICK
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Quote Nick wrote;

Agreed, but the idea from it is that seiza can be a rather inoppurtune position... more people would be content to kick you in the head if they saw u in seiza rather than try and grab a shoulder or reach down to punch you.

Not to mention the time it would take and the openings you would create for yourself.


" Openings you would create for yourself " thats right, Nick, for YOURSELF.

Rick Fielding
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Old 10-25-2000, 08:47 PM   #30
crystalwizard
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so if someone kicked you while you were (seated/kneeling/on the ground somehow)...couldn't you do about the same thing with the flying foot you'd do with a flying fist while you were standing?

______
Kelly
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Old 10-26-2000, 06:20 AM   #31
ian
 
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I think Rick has a bit of a point, although I wouldn't try this myself:-
I was practicing Aikido with someone who had done a bit of Kung Fu and he did some weird technique (I think it was something like the way of the monkey), swooping down in front of me and then lifting my leg to flip me off my feet. It was very effective, even though it you could never do it twicce and it put him in a very prone position. Sometimes the unexpected works because it is just that. (the reason I wouldn't do it is that I assume everyone is a bit scrappy in real situations, kicking, punching and biting anything that comes near them.)
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Old 10-28-2000, 05:43 PM   #32
Nick
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Quote:
RICK wrote:


" Openings you would create for yourself " thats right, Nick, for YOURSELF.
So then, why not avoid that in the first place and remain on your feet?


---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 10-31-2000, 05:12 AM   #33
George S. Ledyard
 
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Hanmi Handachi

[quote]Nick wrote:
Quote:
RICK wrote:
Quote:
[i]BC wrote


BC, hamni handchi is an excellance source of training.
Agreed, but the idea from it is that seiza can be a rather inoppurtune position... more people would be content to kick you in the head if they saw u in seiza rather than try and grab a shoulder or reach down to punch you.

Not to mention the time it would take and the openings you would create for yourself.

as a sidenote rick, are you familiar with the terms ma-ai and re-ai?
I would heartly recommend that people check out Mr. Vasiliyev at http://www.russianmartialart.com
He hs a two video set on fighting from the round that is absolutely oustanding and will give you a new picture of what is possiblefrom that position. The techniques are quite compatible with Aikido principles.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 10-31-2000, 07:28 AM   #34
crystalwizard
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[quote]Nick wrote:
Quote:
RICK wrote:

So then, why not avoid that in the first place and remain on your feet?
because sometimes you wind up on the ground whether you intended to be there or not.

____________
Kelly Christiansen

A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world. Everyone you meet is your mirror
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Old 11-13-2000, 05:07 PM   #35
javi-o
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on punches

Hello,
though I've visited Aikisites for a while, this is the very first time(or second) I send a comentary.
I think The most effective counter to a punch is another punch or a blow with the palm of the hand, believe me it is the most effective thing. Also this could be better done in an irimi nage like way
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Old 11-13-2000, 08:52 PM   #36
Nacho
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Back Punch

Hello, trying to answer the original question of this forum, I will explain (or try to) what one of my instructors has told me. I'm a bit flexible so sometimes when being uke for kotegaeshi I could strike Nage's face before falling. So he told me that when uke attacks, it isn't just the punch and that's all, the attack must continue, attacking nage's center, and that is somehow protecting Uke, because, if Nage feels that Uke did not continue his attack (punch and go backwards), Nage can punch him (with his elbow, fist, etc).
I think that before everything you have to move and enter to take a good position, to feel his attack, and have the chance to strike him.
Someone posted here that Saotome Sensei said that if uke knows that you won't strike him, he can stop any attack.

Nacho.

As I always say, excuse my english.

[Edited by Nacho on November 13, 2000 at 08:54pm]
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Old 11-13-2000, 09:38 PM   #37
akiy
 
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Nacho, please use your real name to sign your posts. Thank you.

-- Jun

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Old 11-14-2000, 03:30 PM   #38
javi-o
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Wink on punches 2

Hello!
yesterday I couldnŽt finish what I intendeded to say.
I agree with theperson who wrote that in aikido tori can start the accion in order to generate a gap in ukeŽs guard,
also I consider it is desireable sometimes to punch than to break an arm. One counter punch is the most efective teqnique against another one, specially if the one that punches is very skillful in the matter, remember good punchers are fast and never loose balance and so do not put themselves in an aikido-teqnique-like situation. Therefore is to enter is needed. And so to practice this "entrance" in opponents guard and throw him while punching(or kicking), this is more for ending a fight than to actually hurt him(what actually happens). During practice be careful, aikido irimi-like blows, since you use the whole body and sometimes manipulate joints in a fast way in their execution, are very dangerous.

Bye
Javier
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Old 11-15-2000, 02:31 AM   #39
ian
 
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I think its becoming apparent that we are considering defence against different types of attacker, namely:
1. those who are very scrappy, with fast repeated and unpredictable punches, and who will tend to pull back into themselves whenever you grab an arm
2. those who do very powerful punches or kicks in a martial way
3. As (2) but can also counter strikes with counter punches or aiki/jujitsu techniques.

Type 2, is what we usually train to deal with, though they are more likely to struggle than we may expect. Type 3 may counter our techniques, especially if we also offer atemis. Type 1 is hard to do a technique on if they are very quick, but are also unlikely to do much damage.

I think the answer is strong and dynamic aikido technique where you can over-power your attacker without:
a. causing too much resistance ('forcefull' but not 'strong'?)
b. needing limbs etc to stay where they are (i.e. being able to move back into uke if they withdaw a limb)

I wonder whether it is worth practising technique with uke trying to withdraw their striking limb, to get used to blending with this movement?

Ian
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Old 12-01-2000, 12:25 AM   #40
SeiWhat?!?
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Circle Reverse punch

We've dealt with this type of question as well in our class. We also have a former boxer who is very fast with the left jab. After several unsuccessful attempts at applying kotegaeshi, hantai ikkyo, and kokyu nage, we discovered that he has a right arm!

Using that new found knowledge, instead of stepping off to our right (on the "safe" side), we did a choyaku movement, hooked his right elbow and turned him into a human slingshot several feet across the room. It took him completely off guard because his focus was on his left jab.

Another technique we used was to toss our sweat towels at him, giving us an opening to turn tail and run.

Best advise I've ever received:
"Don't just stand there, do SOMETHING! The fact that you may have failed doesn't matter, it's HOW you failed. Go down swingin'."

Scott Tanaka
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Old 12-08-2000, 06:46 PM   #41
Serrada
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Rick Fieldings' mention of going into a seiza position reminded me of a picture I've seen of O Sensei doing something similar, except it was actually a rei. I draw no cnclusions from this, it's just my two cents.

Evan Buckley.
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Old 12-09-2000, 05:05 PM   #42
Aikilove
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Lightbulb Re: on punches 2

Quote:
javi-o wrote:
One counter punch is the most efective teqnique against another one, specially if the one that punches is very skillful in the matter, remember good punchers are fast and never loose balance and so do not put themselves in an aikido-teqnique-like situation.
Maybe so javi-o, but it remindes me of a story from Aikifaq.com about this seminar with different MA:iests. This Karateka (And I do beleave they can punch) asked this Aikidoka about how to handle multiple punches. The Aikidoka told him to try it on him, which he did and ended up on the mat with a breakfall. The Aikidoka asked him why he didn't threw the x:nd punch. The stunned karateka said that as soon the Aikidoka started with his (kotegeishi I think) all thought of a x:nd punch was vanished. All hi could think of was how to regain his balance , wich of course hi didn't.

To answer the first question raised in this thred - this week we've trained against ski's with and without tanto. And what we focosed on specially, was being totaly relaxed in your arm closesed to uke in e.i kotegeishi, i.e the hand that (in our cases) blockes and goes from the elbow and down to grab the ukes punching hand - just incase uke pull it back with the speed of lightning. We have a nidan karateka in our club who is a hot as uke when we train this.

Jakob Blomquist
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Old 12-09-2000, 05:10 PM   #43
Aikilove
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Re: Re: on punches 2


I noticed I forgot to sign with may name :0

Jakob B

Jakob Blomquist
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