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Old 10-27-2004, 02:08 AM   #176
p00kiethebear
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

mods. can we start locking threads after a certain length of in activity?

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
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Old 10-27-2004, 02:16 AM   #177
xuzen
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Nathan Gidney wrote:
mods. can we start locking threads after a certain length of in activity?
Or perhaps move this thread to humour section... it serves a humourous purpose though.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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Old 10-27-2004, 07:40 AM   #178
Mark Balogh
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Sorry, I'm a bit late in on this one it seems , but I'd like to contribute my views anyway.

Quote:
wrote:
I have competed in both boxing and wrestling and I am now training in brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I have watched many No Holds Barred competitions, like the UFC, and it is clear to me that Aikido and it's techniques and it's way of training do not prepare anyone to actually fight.
True, if you are talking about a fight and not self defence it doesn't prepare you well. I do a bit of "other" training on the side to make sure I don't have a weakness in this area, but real situations in nightclubs or on the street are where I have learn't the most. I wouldn't recommend this kind of live, dangerous training to anyone.

Quote:
I know that Aikido practitioners talk a lot about concepts like spirituality, harmony...etc. but I also hear people talk about how it is a pratical means of self defense. Aikido does not have practical striking techniques or any REAL matwork at all. I would like to know how Aikido can be used as self defense if you cannot grapple or strike.
Your point is sort of valid but in regards to self defense is very one sided. Let's say that you are a small and timid lady who couldn't bring themselves to hit anyone even if they were taught how. The evasion/movement, escapes and techniques of Aikido are very useful and much better than a one off self defence class. She would know that the technique wouldn't cause injury and would be confident/comfortable in doing it.

I use and teach my Aikido class as a kind of way to loosen up and develop spirit. I try to teach in a very martial manner and make things work against everyone. Students pick up some great self defense skills but people do not come to my class to learn how to fight.
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Old 10-27-2004, 08:18 AM   #179
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

The above argument supposes that BJJ and MMA are "real fights". They are not, they are competitions. You learn good skills, but it is not real fighting, maybe closer to aikido class to real fighting.

I have done both and find my aikido skills very useful in real fighting as much as I have found my BJJ skills.

Both arts offer a great deal of skills in different areas and they are complimentary in nature. I think the arts tend to attract two different personalities, for different reasons

but to say that aikido does not work in a real fight is speaking in ignorance...sorry but it is. People fight, the art and methodology of aikido does not BTW. You fight with what ever you learn and have experienced...trying to label it BJJ, Aikido or anything else is really a big waste of time.
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Old 10-27-2004, 09:04 AM   #180
tenshinaikidoka
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I can attest to the combat effectiveness of Aikido. I was recently in a fight with a person with a weapon (I am a police officer) and I executed a Kotegaeshi. The person went to the ground and I ended the fight!!! Now that is only one experience and this would not work in all situations, however the effectiveness of Aikido is present. Now, as for going to the ground, I would say anything goes at that point and if I happen to bite or crunch certain parts of someone to get away, so be it, that is my life and I will protect it.

And I do not think the UFC or any other competition is accurate of real life fighting, because we are talking about martial artists competing in a tournament basically. Most people you may fight against probably will not have much, if any martial art training. And if they do, well, they aren't very good martial artists to be picking fights anyway!!!!
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Old 10-27-2004, 10:47 AM   #181
Brightsky
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

It doesnt? Im sure some of the more combative subjects ive arrested may have a different opinion. Im a police officer in a big city and i have used it on one more than one occasion. The biggest problem ive noticed is that other police officers dont know what i may be planning to do and in a sense, interfere with a movement (General consensus is to take the suspect to the ground and everyone seems to try to do it at the same time!). I remember one scuffle in particular where i had sort of "entered" and my partner basically took us all down to the ground! Funny now, wasnt at the time.
Reason I say i have used it more than once is because of one movement i like, the name escapes me at the moment. I grab in a cross hand grab with my right, as if to place their hands behind their back and if they resist, atemi to head area with my left and over their arm and grab my own, hip turn to my left and down, and after they fall, i have a police style pin with my knees, and pull up on the arm (im sure everyone has seen it on cops (i hate that show) where everyone places their knee on some part of the body for leverage). works like a charm.
Also, ive used aspects of aikido such as moving off the line of attack without following through with a technique. Another example, i was chasing a car thief once, and after he wrecked the foot race was on, I wasnt familiar with the area and it was at night, i stumbled on something and instinctively rolled and continued the chase, almost without missing a beat. Glad it worked out that way because i lost track of him and I dont want to think of what could have happened if i was unconscious.
Anyway, enough of my ravings. Oh, and by the way Hi everyone.
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Old 10-27-2004, 11:05 AM   #182
CNYMike
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
Aikido does work, unless everyone who has had a real life encounter is lying. Not likely ....
Agreed.

Quote:
.... But I agree with Paul Watt in that it may not be the fastest way to learn self defense and it most certainly has limitations.

1) Suwariwaza and kokyu waza techniques do not substitute for ground fighting like in Judo, wrestling, or BJJ no matter how much some people want to believe it.
I'd never believed that, and so far, I haven't trained with anyone who does. Sensei said flat out one night, "We don't do mat work in Aikido." True. But they don't do it in western boxing, either. So what? One either cross-trains in something that fills that void, or just doesn't worry about it.

Quote:

2) Aikido is somewhat lacking when the Aikido distance is breached and it results in standing grappling.
What do you mean "aikido distance"? You typically start out far away, but instantly get in very close for joint locks and/or throws. It's a close in system anyway; that's how I see it. Could you clairfy this?

Although not a Jun Fan/JKD person myself, I've trained in and glommed up a few things; from their perspective (I guess), correct maai is at kickboxing range, and Aikidoka IMMEDIATELY crash from that, through Jun Fan trapping tange, and into grappling range; the first thing you do after the action start is get in CLOSE for a lock or throw. So I don't see what the problem is with "breaching aikido distance" because Nage does it during every technique.

Quote:
3) Aikido is not practiced enough with full speed realistic strikes.
Well, neither is Kali. Of course, full speed for the tip of a stick is something in the neighborhood of 150 miles per hour, if not higher, so we go a lot slower for training, to educate our bodies and muscle memories. Sure, you can build up to someting like full contact stick fighting, which is done wearing padding and armor, but you learn the art at slower speeds. We've also been relatively gentle with throws and joint locks. In fact, if you ever go to a Pentjak Silat Serak seminar with Maha Guru Victor de Thouars, he will yell at you for going too fast!

Aikido's throws can be very hard, and the joint locks and lead to injury. You SHOULD do them slowly, IMHO, for safety. And if the more combative systems I'm studying endorse that approach, then it may not be that bad of an idea after all.

Quote:
4) There is a severe shortage of full randori to develop the instincts and skills to deal with a wild and uncooperative partner.
So one can cross-train in Judo or BJJ to fill that gap. The lack of full randori in Aikido is because the founder forbade competitions; the concept of a "winner" and a "loser" runs counter to the arts philosophical underpinnings. So criticizing Aikido for not having full randori strikes me as saying the Yankees lost to the Red Sox because they didn't get any field goal kicks in.

Quote:

5) And most importantly the fact that so many Aikidoka answer people's questions to the above points by saying "Well just don't let yourself be taken to the ground," "Just don't allow you oppponent to breach your mai," or my favorite "Just don't fight them, walk away." All of these would be great if they were foolproof, but we live in a real world and Aikido is not magic.
No, it isn't, and my instructors agree you should learn ground fighting in case you get taken down. But as noted above, there are people who swear by it based on real life encounters, so it's not all garbage either.
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Old 10-27-2004, 12:21 PM   #183
Michael Neal
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Michael,

What I mean by Aikido distance (maai) is that if your opponent grabs ahold of you, your Aikido has pretty much failed at that point. There are some Aikido techniques that deal with this but only at the initial contact, katadori techniques I believe. Once there is locked in clinching there is not much Aikido that will work at that point.

Unfortunatley there are plenty of Aikidoka that believe otherwise regarding the ground fighting.

There are plenty of Aikidoka that crosstrain, that is why I was referring to "some people" not all. There are also people who think Aikido is a complete martial art that can handle any situation and these are the types of people I am referring to. There are so many who will absolutely refuse to aknowledge the limitations of Aikido, but of course there are others that do and who crosstrain to fill these gaps.

I was never trying to impy that Aikido is "garbage," I wish I had enough time to take it up again, it is a great martial art and philosophy.

And again, other martial arts have weaknesses as well. BJJ has a belief that most fights go to the ground and train almost exclusively for that scenerio, a very bad strategy in my view. Judo is lacking in defense against strikes because of an over emphasis on competition. Karate is weak against almost any grappling etc. etc.

Not picking on Aikido but I just think people should be honest with themselves that it has limitations just like other martial arts.

Last edited by Michael Neal : 10-27-2004 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 10-27-2004, 01:51 PM   #184
Niko Salgado
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Alright, first I'd like to say this, not to offend anyone, but to just signify "terminology and jargon" tactics. You do not tell a person who's new to Aikido that they have no place in fights. We are "avoiding" conflict. We are "not fighting". Aikido does not work on fights. To most people new, it sounds kinda weird and stupid. Anything of the similar mindset. As friend of a victim of it especially in the medical field, when you try to explain to someone that their friend needs surgery and might possibly die from it because of (insert latin terminology for body parts and procedures), you scare them off, you begin conflict and you lose a customer, and in this case, possibly cause someone to make the wrong decision about prolonging their life. You have to describe things in lamen's terms. Those of us who study extensively have a much higher understanding of what we do and it's fine to talk to each other that way. There is no way you can speed up someone who's naive or ignorant to this type of thinking. Practicing this alone will help you introduce aikido to other people more easily without confusing them.

Second, more than half the thread talked about in one way or another, about comparing Aikido with other marital arts. A late sensei of mine about 5 years ago had told me, "Comparing martial arts is like comparing a mountain and a river. One isn't better than the other, but they are a part of the world." You have to look at the purpose of an art to decide why you'd want to practice it, just like you'd have to look at the purpose of a mountain or a river to use it. You can call it whatever you like, but to the new guy, I would definitely say that Aikido works in fights. In my experience, there is no fair fight, even in boxing, or other competitive sports, because of the idea that there is always someone better. Something fair to me involves an equal chance of winning, like the lottery when every person has only one ticket.

Now, joeysola..

Before I begin with what you've said, let me tell you, Aikido is by no means a martial art that you will get instant gratification out of. If you want to kick ass, right away, go look for another art. Aikido for a lot of people is a way of life, in mind and body. And if you've put up with it for even a year, you'll do fine in life.

In the case of an unavoidable fight, we have to define it first. Many people say that there is no such thing. That is as naive as the former. Not every fight is avoidable, or unavoidable. DO NOT make the assumption that there's always some way to avoid it, because people make mistakes whether it is by choice or not. My biggest examples of unavoidable fights are:

1. A guy in prison- you can use the imagination you can when I say this cliche, "don't drop the soap."

2. 11 year old girl(or any woman) who's a rape victim- women think differently than men. Often times the woman/girl gets kidnapped, doesn't matter what time of day or where they are, it happens.

3. Police- Their job is like a huge fight, always constantly in conflict. Don't worry about not exercising true Aikido, but the aikido techniques alone help them.

4. Robbery/Mugging- If you're being held up, by knife or gun, avoiding this would mean running, most people aren't confident in their instincts to run, what becomes their instinct? Give what they have to offer.

Now, there are several other examples, but I'm still wondering where eye gouging doesn't fall into "fighting". Eye gouging is as good a technique as a knee to the groin. Both will stun the opponent enough for you to either run away a bit or do more damage. The best way to deal with someone sitting on you punching your face out is not to get into it in the first place. If you happen to be in that situation I would still land a punch to the groin or go for the eye gouge. (moral of that tactic, wear a nutcup, or be castrated)

Furthermore, on your latest post, to tell you straight, Aikido has limitations and Aikido is not the ultimate martial art(i've already said why above). The primary limitations of Aikido depends on your experience, but all things except the universe and black holes, have limitations. You decrease these limitations with practice and an open mind.

To conclude, I will tell you this. I personally have had experience with fights, on the street in the downtown area, and further in the past in my school. The most recent of it I would consider an unavoidable fight, because the situation started with a couple guys asking me for some pocket change, which I wasn't going to give because I needed it for the bus. I was allegedly yelled at and approached, but I was already tired from running between catching busses. As much as I want to say I just did Aikido in that fight is only half true, I had a bad day that day and wanted to express my frustrations. One of them used a small stick(the size of 2.5 pencils together) as a weapon, which I had confiscated in the process and performed "the pain of a thousand years."(Quote taken from the anime Naruto) If you really want to know what that means, send me a private message. Most of you probably don't want to know.

It's all depending on circumstance. I hope this would be one of the last of all posts, because it took me an hour to read all the posts before taking another 30 minutes to write this one. All of you have a good day, and joeysola, I hope you get a better understanding now.
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Old 10-27-2004, 04:16 PM   #185
CNYMike
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Michael Neal wrote:
Michael,

What I mean by Aikido distance (maai) is that if your opponent grabs ahold of you, your Aikido has pretty much failed at that point. There are some Aikido techniques that deal with this but only at the initial contact, katadori techniques I believe. Once there is locked in clinching there is not much Aikido that will work at that point.
Thanks for clarifying.

I've only been back to Aikido for six months after a sixteen year abscence, duirng which time I got into other arts (which I'm still pursuing). A lot of the grabbing attacks, such as grabs to the shoulder and lapel, seem to be predicated on the assumption that you face a grab-and-strike scenario. Our dojo looked at them a few months ago, where the strike was fire off (which has the added benefit of educating you in how to handle the rear hand). Dealing with the initial grab, obviously, can neutraize that threat (and the clinch you mentioned) before it gets fully expressed, although the operating assumption is the grab-and-strike, not the grab-clinch-whatever.

I think that for other scenarios, Aikido can work BUT(!) Aikidoka wishing to explore those should internalize principles, not techniques. Remember, Aikido is set up so that each attack -- wrist grabs, strikes, etc. -- can be answered by most if not all of the joint locks and throws; and all of the technqiues can be used against almost every attack *and each other.* To respond to kicks, boxing combinations, clinches, etc., you'd have to have not one set response but dope out how to make every technique -- shiho nage, irimi nage, the pins, etc. -- work against them. However, if you internalize Aikido's principles, you can just generate techniques when needed. My Kali instructor teaches on the same principle.

It helps that the way some dojos (including mine) do it is, say, focus one one attack and then variation that you can use against it. How well that works well in the long run, I don't know. But it's a good idea to NOT say "when A happens, do 1;" instead, "When A happens, you can do 1, 2, 3, 4 ..... "

Quote:
...... There are plenty of Aikidoka that crosstrain, that is why I was referring to "some people" not all. There are also people who think Aikido is a complete martial art that can handle any situation and these are the types of people I am referring to. There are so many who will absolutely refuse to aknowledge the limitations of Aikido .....
Well, there's anecdotal evidence of Aikido teachers successfully dealing with attacks they hadn't formally trained for; I seem to recall O Sensei also thought Aikido techniques could handle any possibility. <shrug> Whether they are the exception or the rule, I couldn't tell you, although AFAIK, every art has its partisans who think "This will handle everything." I'm not losing any sleep over it, and not just because I crosstrain. It's all about what works for you. If Aikido does the trick that one time someone tries to mug you, that's the important thing. And I doubt most muggers are trained MMA fighter who will clinch, go to the ground, try for a juji gatame ....

At least I hope not!

Quote:
..... I was never trying to impy that Aikido is "garbage," I wish I had enough time to take it up again, it is a great martial art and philosophy.
Yeah, at the end of the day that's why I got back into it -- There's Something About Aikido that gets in your blood and stays there. I can justify why I'm doing it and how it fits in with everything else I'm doing, but at the end of it, Aikido's je ne sais quoi got me!

Quote:
.... I just think people should be honest with themselves that it has limitations just like other martial arts.
That "problem" is probably widespread in the MA. Doubt you can do much about it. One of my instructors compared it to pride in your sports team, or your favorite food, better than anything. Nothing wrong with that.

Then there are those who have the buffet.
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Old 10-27-2004, 04:18 PM   #186
tenshinaikidoka
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Well, I hope my response did not seem like I was saying that Aikido is the end all of the martial arts, and if it did come across that way, I apologize. I know that Aikido does not work in every situation, however if I go to the ground, then I don't hold back, I bite, grab and whatever I have to do to get out of that situation. But my perspective is that it has helped me personally. And I think it is especially important when dealing with multiple agressors. Ok, nuff said. Oh, and I am glad we can all get this out with an open mind and not have a spat as to which art is superior etc. Have a good day all!!!!
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Old 10-29-2004, 02:34 PM   #187
oudbruin
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

RE: comparing aikido to other martial arts- Someone once said"does the Mountain apologies to the river for being too toll, or the river for being too low"
Re: effectiveness-I will testify that AIKIJUTSU technique is effective.
IMHO most of what is practiced at most AIKIDO dojo today is actually AIKIJUTSU- as opposed to AIKIDO, absent a moral, internal framework the techniques are simply technique- nothing more.
To internalize and to truly be aiki as emulated by OSENSEI, is a tall order. I suggest it would be like an art student studying Picasso for 25 years, yes, he can paint like Picasso, but he is not Picasso. To do a technique for the sake of technique is not AIKIDO, yes AIKIDO is about technical mastery, but is also about a MORAL, internal framework of respect and honor towards all life. Perhaps, we should seek that which was sought by Osensei, rather than simply trying to imitate what he did.
Maybe, because I'm a cancer survivor that I look at the value of life differently than many. I have seen too many posts talking about the flash of the spectacular throws and high break falls- yet few , too few, have talked about true aiki situations of harmonizing with others in conflict situations.
If you feel a need to punch and kick, to dislocate someones arm or bust a head - I suggest that AIKIDO may not be for you. Maybe you might want to study KravMaga or some other really violant form. Better yet , go out and buy yourself a shinken and carry it around all day along with your 357 magnum...WOW, you'll really be scary than.
There is a story about a very advanced Sword Master who would visit Osensei at his Dojo, his intent was to challenge Osensei- who sensing the underlying intent, always managed to apply ample volumes of SAKE WAZA to the esteemed visitor. The visitor was happy and so was Osensei. As both would catch a good buzz- I think that is true aiki.
Likewise, Tohei Sensei, tells of a AIKI situation on a train.
bottom line-
AIKIDO IS NOT SIMPLY TECHNIQUE.
I
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Old 10-31-2004, 12:45 AM   #188
Lorien Lowe
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

[quote=Michael Neal]Michael,

...if your opponent grabs ahold of you, your Aikido has pretty much failed at that point. There are some Aikido techniques that deal with this but only at the initial contact, katadori techniques I believe.


Katadori being a shoulder grab. But you forgot aidori (opposite side wrist grab), and katatedori (same side wrist grab), and katadori menuchi (shoulder grab and punch), and ryokatatedori (both hands grabbed, and ryokatadori (both shoulders grabbed), and ushiro ryokatadori (both shoulders grabbed from behind), and ushiro ryokatatedori (both wrists grabbed from behind), and morotedori (attacker grabs one arm with both hands)... where have you been training that you only did katadori techniques?
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Old 10-31-2004, 01:01 AM   #189
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

You must remember that Aikido is a DO not a SU. That means it's primary concern is teaching principles not tactics or techniques. The principles are universal. Meaning they exist in all the arts from BJJ, JUDO, Jujutsu, and others.

So, IMHO, to say that Aikido does not work once motion stops is true on one hand, but on the other hand it is not true.

I believe Michael is illuding to the point that motion must be present in order for aikido to work. That is true. Once your opponent anchors on you, it is pretty much a stalemate and you must figure out what to do to restart motion.

However, to say that once your opponent grabs ahold of you, aikido has failed....no I would not say that....it is an oversimplification.

We do tend to practice large movements in aikido, and yes I would agree, once the circles and motions get smaller (as in a clinch) most aikidoka are not comfortable dealing with the smaller movements. That does not mean aikido does not work though! It means the aikidoka does not work!

The principles are there. I use my "aikido" all the time when in the clinch, or guard. They are universal in nature.

You must not focus, IMHO, on the SU aspects in a DO dojo. You are there to establish a base and understanding of principle. Once you graduate to the big leagues and have an understanding of the principles are you free to explore all that Aikido has to offer from it's methodology.

Ask me sometime how I learned the hard way when Saotome Sensei flattened my face against the wall when I tried to prove that aikido did not work from a walled clinch!
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:05 AM   #190
Mark Balogh
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Oh something else to add, I am friends with a very good Aikidoka who used to be a street wise boxer and Park Policeman. He got tired of using boxing to sort out attackers because of the blood and teeth etc he had to clean up after!!! He turned to Aikido and used it very effectively (granted his Aikido is class) in several situations (he's been shot at and had knives pulled on him and all sorts!!!!).
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Old 11-18-2004, 08:03 PM   #191
scorpioet2
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Ai symbol Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Here is my opinion and comment on your statement and Aikido in general as I have experienced it:

I agree with you in general. Aikido does not have mat work in the sense you describe it. I was taught that Aikido was for health. And it is. It can also be an effective method of control. The correctional facilities officers in my town used to use aikido restraint techniques on the inmates there. So, the point of this is HOW YOU TRAIN. If I train for health reasons, my aikido will seem to lack that which you are seeking within it. If I trained for defensive purposes, you would see a very different version. I had the opportunity to train for 3 years regularly with shihan level instructors, regular shihans sent from Japan, and a first generation student under O'Sensei, who happened to be the oldest living instructor at the time. (90yrs young). So I saw the real thing. BUT...what was taught and practiced was done in an Aikido dojo with aikidoists. NOT non practictioners. SO therein lies the issue. I came to see that my aikido would not work on my friends because I had not trained it for that type of environment. In the dojo, its uke and nage and both help each other to learn. with my friends and fellow martial artists, its a different ball game. I have had to relearn how to apply the concepts and techniques in an environment where the opponent does not willingly go along with it. And by that I mean, in the dojo the technique works great on a fellow student, because that person has unknowingly trained themselves to fall or roll or give a certain way when you apply your technique. On the street it dont happen that way. Thats why it probably seems so difficult to do your techniques on brand new students. So "how you train, is how you react. And how you react is how you live." While I have no doubt that the founders grandson can handle himself quite well, (I have participated in workshops of his), if he was to enter into the UFC, he would be a fool to rest on his laurels and not cross train with non aikidoists. He would HAVE to in order to understand how his technique would have to vary in order for it to work. Look at it another way. Most everyone has been on a boat one time or another, but a sailor LIVES on his ship. Every moment of his day and night is affected by the oceans movements. So he learns how to ajdust and handle it or he cant live his daily life. A simple act such as walking changes to reflect how the ship moves and sways, even little things like sitting in a chair become different. So he trains himself to handle these things that normal people take for granted. So it must be with Aikido. I believe that you must first learn the techniques and the underlying concepts surrounding this art, then you must learn to understand it and how it fits into life, then you must learn how to apply it. (and this goes also to commenting about its usage) Theory and application are always two different things. Most of what you see and do in the dojo is theory. The true application must come later after you understand theory. So, basically, this discussion boils down to this.....Theory and application are two different aspects. IF all you have is theory, then you become what the chinese call, Brocade Fist. Beautiful flowing movements, but no substance. It takes application to rid yourself of the Brocade Fist.

Think about it.
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Old 11-20-2004, 12:46 AM   #192
rachel
Dojo: Aikikai Foundation Hombu Dojo, Aikido of Hilo
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I understand when people initially doubt Aikido and it's ability to actually work. It, at first, seems to be an overly gentle art that won't give you any actual ability of self defense. I understand why people think this, but after years of training, I hope that you don't have these questions or doubts any longer. I've been studying Aikido since childhood and I've used it a few times. I used Aikido in a fight as a teenager, and I think it kept me from being harmed. Most of all though, I've gained mental and physical self-control from Aikido that has helped me in many situations. That is very important!
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Old 11-20-2004, 06:28 PM   #193
andylucas
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

i don't know what styles most of you take, but we fight every class running fronts, back grabs staticgrabs,yoke,sho,tsuki.theres no set time your ready or your wacked, stabed or thrown on the ground. our school is a self defence school ,
theres no gimmys you earn everything you achive.
the police instructors all train here so i guess it works for law enforcement.you have to give any ma a chance well beyond green belt to make a call on efectiveness. sorry i'm tired of other mas bashing us. this is better, that is better.that doesn't work you need to do 2,3,4 other mas [at the same time ] to defend your self what? how about learning 1 really well .
well my rant is over now
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Old 11-20-2004, 10:05 PM   #194
Don
Dojo: aikido of charlotte
Location: Charlotte
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Well, did anybody (at least in the States) see the brawl that occurred at the Pistons NBA game on 11/19/04? THAT was a fight. A boxing match is not a fight. UFC is not a fight. What you saw in that brawl was more like the kind of situation from which aikido techniques were drawn. Somebody is pissed at you and they are intent on hitting you. They aren't jabbing at you or looking for openings. They want to hurt you. Would aikido techniques work there. Probably, because no one is concerned about points or has the time to look for an advantage. They are concerned about doing something to hurt you, and they aren't going to waste time looking for an advantage. Does aikido work in a sport situation where people have time to look for an advantage. Perhaps if modified, but that's not where aikido techniques came from. So, what is a mugging more like? A brawl or a sport match? You be the judge..
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Old 11-20-2004, 11:46 PM   #195
Kevin Kelly
Dojo: Aikido of Reno
Location: Fernley, NV
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Boy, what an old thread. After reading a couple of pages I finally looked at the post dates. Someone decided to revive this thread after a year and a half silence. Sheesh, I think the original poster was a troll and I think he got the responses he wanted. He didn't seem to be reading any of the posts when he was making his replies. Oh well. My two cents.
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Old 11-21-2004, 03:56 PM   #196
Hagen Seibert
Dojo: TendoRyu
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

hail the most successful troll on aikiweb
heŽll make the 200
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Old 11-22-2004, 04:17 PM   #197
JMartinez
Dojo: Fudoshin/Southern Aikido
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Ai symbol Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I have studied several martial arts and to tell you the truth the most effective in my opinion without a doubt is Aikido. I was in the Marine Corps and was stationed in Japan for two years. I have seen Japanese Police take down those Big Bad Gaijin(Americans) in a matter of seconds using Aikido Techniques. I have gotten in a couple of fights not by choice, but in self defense and yes Aikido does work. To quote Rickson Gracie on multiple attackers:
Quote:
What is your favorite multiple-opponent technique?


Rickson: My Sig-Sauer P220 .45 caliber pistol [laughing]. It is the best "technique" in this situation, I believe.


FC: Are you a good shot?


Rickson: Yes.


ckson Gracie on defence against multiple attackers
:
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Old 11-22-2004, 06:30 PM   #198
The Molinjir
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Aikido, at least at my level (5th kyu) is not that great a way to defend yourself, if you stick to the exact techniques, but if you simply stick with the basic principals of the technique, I have found it to work.

Almost as much as actually technique, my skills in simply dodging and blocking have improved immensely since I started Aikido.

Besides, wristlocks are wonderful for taking a knife away from somone

~Molinjir
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Old 11-22-2004, 07:30 PM   #199
Bronson
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I think martial arts in general are terrible for fights. In the 13 years that I've been studying MA I haven't been able to get into a single physical confrontation....what a ripoff

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 11-22-2004, 07:43 PM   #200
xuzen
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Bronson Diffin wrote:
I think martial arts in general are terrible for fights. In the 13 years that I've been studying MA I haven't been able to get into a single physical confrontation....what a ripoff

Bronson
Yeah, I too demand my money back for all the time and effort wasted. I wanna kick some a#s to know that I am a tough guy. Anybody wanna meet me at the soccer field during recess? Oh sorry I gotta ask my mommy first, sorry.

SHOMEN-ATE (TM), the solution to 90% of aikido and life's problems.
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