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Old 03-11-2012, 08:47 PM   #1826
Ketsan
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I like videos like this and seeing this kind of situation. It always makes me ask, "Is that what you do in training?"
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:35 PM   #1827
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

or how he spends his time searching on the internet

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Old 03-11-2012, 10:41 PM   #1828
roadtoad
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Graham, would you like to get in the ring with manny pacquaio, and throw a couple of sword strikes( a.k.a. shomenuchi)at him? You think you could take him out with sword strikes?
If you know anything in any martial art that is more of a joke than sword strike, please let me know what it is.
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:02 AM   #1829
lars beyer
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
The attraction to Aikido for people 40+ is rather obvious though for me I will be mixing BJJ and Aikido, and continue to try to make my Aikido more live like BJJ. [Not just resisting, but getting the game where it is more like a puzzle/chess match - may not be totally the same as in BJJ... but that is the goal.
..

Thanks, Aikido takes a long time to learn.. I wonder if I will ever be able to go through the whole curriculum..
I also find weapons techniques very interresting.. thinking about practising shuriken and if possible.. Katori Shinto Ryu..
there is a dojo close to where I live where they practise that every saturday..
As for cardio training I allways leave 1 minut too late so I have to run to catch the bus.. huff puff..

I believe some people put too much emphasis on whether Aikido is usefull in a real fight..
The problem with a real fight is that you don´t know what it looks like before it´s over..
The few times I have used Aikido in a real fight it served me well, because it enabled me to
finish the fight before it even started. Like letting air out of a balloon.. and the best thing
about it is the look on the other persons face, complete disappointment and disbelief
that he didn´t manage to get me in a fight and that his initial buildup of aggression amounts to absolutely
nothing.. it´s like defusing a grenade and using it as a doorstopper.
It´s great fun and very rewarding.. But for many people not very heroic..

Peace
Lars
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:11 AM   #1830
dalen7
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

This debate can go on forever as one poster pointed out - which is fine, but...

"If you want to learn to swim jump into the water. On dry land no frame of mind is ever going to help you." ~Bruce Lee

Below is a quote from Roy Dean that summarizes things nicely:
[A black belt in both Aikido, Judo, and BJJ]

Perhaps his prominence and 'marked' achievements will give more weight to this than what a 'stranger' in Hungary has tried to say.

Below Quote comes from:
http://www.slideyfoot.com/2011/05/dv...-roy-dean.html

"I generally take issue with the aikido I’ve learned, seen, and come in contact with being advertised as self-defense. Although there are aspects and techniques of aikido that I believe can be gleaned and added to your martial arsenal (i.e. footwork for getting off the line, blending with an overcommitted attack, etc.), I could never recommend it to somebody who wanted to learn self-defense. Not only is there too much silence about what works and what doesn’t, the non-competitive training method doesn’t put students in pressure situations similar enough to real confrontations, breeding a false sense of security in students through tacit affirmations such as:

1) It may take 20 years, but this stuff will work if you just keep practicing.

2) Don’t worry about strength, since physical conditioning isn’t that important.

3) These exercises we’re doing are how attacks really are.

4) If it’s not working, you’re not using your center.

5) Keep extending that ki to keep him at bay!

It’s not fair to your students to misrepresent what your art is capable of. If your average aikido student rolled with a judo or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu player, or got in the ring with a boxer or kickboxer, he wouldn’t know what to do with that kind of intensity. He’d simply be overwhelmed. I’ve seen this point debated through letters to the editor in Aikido Today Magazine, but there’s only one way to find out. Do it. To paraphrase Bruce Lee, you can’t learn to swim unless you get wet, so how can you learn how to fight without fighting?" - Roy Dean

dAlen [day•lynn]
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:13 AM   #1831
dalen7
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Lars Beyer wrote: View Post
..
Like letting air out of a balloon.. and the best thing
about it is the look on the other persons face, complete disappointment and disbelief
that he didn´t manage to get me in a fight and that his initial buildup of aggression amounts to absolutely
nothing.. it´s like defusing a grenade and using it as a doorstopper.
It´s great fun and very rewarding.

Peace
Lars
100% agree with the above quote...

Peace

Dalen

dAlen [day•lynn]
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:18 AM   #1832
lars beyer
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
This debate can go on forever as one poster pointed out - which is fine, but...

"If you want to learn to swim jump into the water. On dry land no frame of mind is ever going to help you." ~Bruce Lee

Below is a quote from Roy Dean that summarizes things nicely:
[A black belt in both Aikido, Judo, and BJJ]

Perhaps his prominence and 'marked' achievements will give more weight to this than what a 'stranger' in Hungary has tried to say.

Below Quote comes from:
http://www.slideyfoot.com/2011/05/dv...-roy-dean.html

"I generally take issue with the aikido I've learned, seen, and come in contact with being advertised as self-defense. Although there are aspects and techniques of aikido that I believe can be gleaned and added to your martial arsenal (i.e. footwork for getting off the line, blending with an overcommitted attack, etc.), I could never recommend it to somebody who wanted to learn self-defense. Not only is there too much silence about what works and what doesn't, the non-competitive training method doesn't put students in pressure situations similar enough to real confrontations, breeding a false sense of security in students through tacit affirmations such as:

1) It may take 20 years, but this stuff will work if you just keep practicing.

2) Don't worry about strength, since physical conditioning isn't that important.

3) These exercises we're doing are how attacks really are.

4) If it's not working, you're not using your center.

5) Keep extending that ki to keep him at bay!

It's not fair to your students to misrepresent what your art is capable of. If your average aikido student rolled with a judo or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu player, or got in the ring with a boxer or kickboxer, he wouldn't know what to do with that kind of intensity. He'd simply be overwhelmed. I've seen this point debated through letters to the editor in Aikido Today Magazine, but there's only one way to find out. Do it. To paraphrase Bruce Lee, you can't learn to swim unless you get wet, so how can you learn how to fight without fighting?" - Roy Dean
To me, all this represents a view on aikido which defeats it´s purpose. The purpose for me is what I describe in my post above the post I quote here. I don´t think competition belongs in aikido.
Peace
Lars
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:25 AM   #1833
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Lars Beyer wrote: View Post
To me, all this represents a view on aikido which defeats it´s purpose. The purpose for me is what I describe in my post above the post I quote here. I don´t think competition belongs in aikido.
Peace
Lars
Perhaps... but you do not need Aikido to reach the state of mind you mentioned, though it indeed can be an integral part of the path to reach that point.

I know with my Aikido and Eckhart I reached the same conclusion as you.

But to make it out as anything past that... as for actual 'skill' in the given scenario, is just a disservice for those who are looking at it in such a way - which many people are.

Peace

Dalen

p.s.

The good part with BJJ is you can be an old fart and have legit skills that if you wanted you could truly play around and even use if needed - though with the mindset you and I are going after you may be less inclined for the latter.

With Aikido as it currently is, you basically are within a defined box with no flexibility - if you wanted to try out a game of chess with others who dont already know your moves it wouldnt work for you as it would not be cooperative. [Yes, there is even cooperative resistance that builds up some strange habits that can take people by surprise when you try something different to what they are used to.]

Last edited by dalen7 : 03-12-2012 at 01:30 AM.

dAlen [day•lynn]
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:39 AM   #1834
lars beyer
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
Perhaps... but you do not need Aikido to reach the state of mind you mentioned, though it indeed can be an integral part of the path to reach that point.

I know with my Aikido and Eckhart I reached the same conclusion as you.

But to make it out as anything past that... as for actual 'skill' in the given scenario, is just a disservice for those who are looking at it in such a way - which many people are.

Peace

Dalen

p.s.

The good part with BJJ is you can be an old fart and have legit skills that if you wanted you could truly play around and even use if needed - though with the mindset you and I are going after you may be less inclined for the latter.

With Aikido as it currently is, you basically are within a defined box with no flexibility - if you wanted to try out a game of chess with others who dont already know your moves it wouldnt work for you as it would not be cooperative. [Yes, there is even cooperative resistance that builds up some strange habits that can take people by surprise when you try something different to what they are used to.]
Hi, I confused your message with another one in the hurry ! I have contacted the administrator to be able to edit my response to your message, I don´t find my answer aprobiate ! Sorry !
Peace
Lars
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:16 AM   #1835
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
Tsuki/atemi...
dunno, would say a love hate relation.

Fine for movement, etc. - but the way it is practiced typically will leave most people on the floor of any boxing ring. Im not saying its impossible, Im guessing Rokkyo may potentially be pulled off - but even then the strikes in Aikido are nothing like in boxing.

I see too many people, [ranking], who appear to believe that their Tsuki is awesome - until a gentle reminder comes up with a typical jab, etc. which is too fast. [of course no real hit in Aikido, but its fast enough to make the point.]

There are all kind of simulated strikes and entries, which I personally dont like only in that if the person were really hit the whole body would not stay in the postion it is in to finish the move how it is done.

More than likely you would transition to a ground move once someone is hit, etc.

Again, not useless - but within a wider picture, from my experience, it can be misleading.

Peace

Dalen
Good points! I'm not saying anything about the general quality of strikes practiced in Aikido (FWIW-mine suck), only suggesting there is probably something more to the "karate chop" to the forehead than perhaps meets the eye. I'm a very low level student, so I'm making no strong claims of authority here, but raising the tegatana and cutting seems a like a potentially good deflection followed by a potentially good suppression. My understanding is that ideally it shouldn't matter quite so much what hits aite...whether it's my ulna in a downward arc or my knuckles in a more horizontal one, if the rest of my body is well-connected to it, it should be viable.
Take care,
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:49 AM   #1836
dalen7
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
... if the rest of my body is well-connected to it, it should be viable.
Take care,
Matt
nicely put...

Peace

Dalen

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Old 03-12-2012, 04:46 AM   #1837
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Dalen, nice post. as you know Roy and I are friends and share much in common.

I can't really improve on Roy's comments. Only thing I'll say is....no excuses.

I like being in the position to be able to follow the philosophy typically ascribed to Aikido, and to be able to be competent in fighting. That is, I can walk into any MMA school, BJJ, judo school, or any other RBSD venue and be able to talk and walk intelligently about training.

I also like having the ability to set an example about being a good citizen and to promote peace and peaceful agendas. Not just talk about it.

So, yeah...I call BS on the "it take 20 years to be effective with Aikido"

Yeah, I suck at much in Aikido, and do not consider myself a master of anything and yea...I see martial arts as a life long journey that changes as u change.

However, if we consider ourselves martial artist, we should be able to offer our students good sound advice and solutions and not platitudes or excuses.

I think you should be able to intelligently deal with the spectrum of fighting and resistance from competition to fighting...to the whole peace and harmony thing. It is not impossible, only that we have instructors that can't do things that define the rules of engagement in training and curriculum that hide their weaknesses and limitations.

I understand that not everyone has the access of time to the raining and experiences that have been fortunate to be exposed to, but that is not important either. What is important is that we point them in the right direction and be true about our limitations with out offer BS or hiding behind some convoluted set of rules or philosophy that says that we don't do certain things cause dogmatically they don't fall within the constraints of aikido,.

What would be refreshing is to hear, that yeah...understanding fighting, violence , and conflict is important ...however this is the limit of my training or abilities, or this is all I want to focus on...but if it is important to you on your journey on the path, let's figure out how we can guide you on that path that is unique for you.

Not, well, we don't do that cause it is not Aikido, and you can get there by not fighting, but it will take u 20 years.

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Old 03-12-2012, 05:31 AM   #1838
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Just want to clarify. I am not saying that you need to be a bad ass, or study MMA to have value or quality Aikido. Just saying don't make excuses, or contrive constraints, or rules to ignore those things or discount them. Our practices can be tailored to our focuses and abilities, based on age, body, size, and mind. It should.

I certainly don't expect a 70 year old to be able to do full break falls to realize the advantages of Aikido practice.

A 20 year old in perfect shape and abilities though should be guided in a different way, and his practice should be able to encompass a high degree of martial competence and still be able to call himself a aikidoka.

A good instructor should be able to walk the spectrum and not limit it. Even if it means referring him to others.

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Old 03-12-2012, 09:20 AM   #1839
graham christian
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Ike Spenser wrote: View Post
Graham, would you like to get in the ring with manny pacquaio, and throw a couple of sword strikes( a.k.a. shomenuchi)at him? You think you could take him out with sword strikes?
If you know anything in any martial art that is more of a joke than sword strike, please let me know what it is.
The joke is thinking there is any comparison. Fights in a ring are sports. Any Aikidoka could go train in those things and make their way up through the levels just like anyone else.

Martial arts are not the same thing. Those who insist on comparing them are not too bright in my eyes.

Add to that that Aikido is more the art of no fighting then the comparisons are even more outrageous.

How many eye gauges are allowed in those sports? How many neck breaks are allowed? How many hits or punches to the adams apple or throat are allowed? How many bites are allowed? How many knives or weapons are allowed? How many dislocations are allowed? Should I go on?

What is not allowed is what you have to see in order to see it is a sport. Time to wake up I think.

Time to enjoy combat sports for what they are and martial disciplines for what they are and then you can see the difference and enjoy both or whichever one you prefer.

No comparison. No need.

If anyone really wants to understand Aikido in a 'fight' then they would talk to those who used it in life in such situations otherwise it's a waste of time and breath.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:35 AM   #1840
Ketsan
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
but it will take u 20 years.
I never understood that and the more I transtition from simply being a student to becoming an instructor I understand it less and less. My experience is that there's a pressure in Aikido to slow things down, to not get things done and not get skills learned. We have this paradigm that says that Aikido is very hard and takes a long time to learn and we adjust our training to match that expectation.

We can see this expectation born out around black belt anxieties and if rank means anything and the discussions around what we should be training for. Dan grade is four or five years work if you're trying to get a student to dan grade but in Aikido you can't be seen to be training for dan grade and I suppose as a teacher you can't be seen to be training your students for dan grade.

Aikido is largely a group of wannabe wise old men sitting in caves with long white beards talking in koans about the supposedly mystical realities of training. There's no drive or immediacy and no sense of purpose. In other arts there are competitions so there is a drive to learn and improve because you as a practitioner are going to be in a fight or at least you're training with guys who are going to be in a fight.

Aikido by comparison is about not being in a rush and being seen not to want black belt and seeing training as it's own goal. If training is it's own goal what motivation is there to learn Aikido? This is the paradox of Aikido: you're not supposed to want to learn Aikido because training would then be a means to an end and Aikido has no ends to meet.

Black belt isn't even a goal because you're only ready for it when you don't want it so there's a pressure there not to improve and not to learn or at least become apathetic to the idea of your own progress.

That's why it takes twenty years; all the incentives are for people who don't want to progress and stagnation and ability to stagnate without it affecting you is the goal. The message of Aikido is: If you can come training and make no progress and still train day in day out for the rest of your life you've mastered Aikido.

If anyone walks into an Aikido dojo and asks how long it takes to get black belt they usually get an answer that would make any sane person go and do another art because when we say "it takes as long as it takes" what we're really saying is "Student progress isn't really a goal here."
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:41 AM   #1841
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Add to that that Aikido is more the art of no fighting then the comparisons are even more outrageous.

How many eye gauges are allowed in those sports? How many neck breaks are allowed? How many hits or punches to the adams apple or throat are allowed? How many bites are allowed? How many knives or weapons are allowed? How many dislocations are allowed? Should I go on?

What is not allowed is what you have to see in order to see it is a sport. Time to wake up I think.
How compassionate.

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Old 03-12-2012, 09:56 AM   #1842
grondahl
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
How many eye gauges are allowed in those sports? How many neck breaks are allowed? How many hits or punches to the adams apple or throat are allowed? How many bites are allowed? How many knives or weapons are allowed? How many dislocations are allowed?
However: how many necks have you broken in aikido? How many times have you struck your partner in the throat or on the adams apple with power and intention? Do you regulary bite your training partners?

The question of sport is irrelevant. You can have realistic sparring/dynamic testing and still not have competitions, you do it because it´s a learning experience.

As for dislocations: There is reason that you tap out. As for weapons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTKqYkvmdkU

And a +1 for Demetrios latest comment. The peaceful martial art that resolves conflict without violence, killing and maiming is after all a peaceful activity if done by anybody who ties on a hakama and do a couple of tenkans now and then

Last edited by grondahl : 03-12-2012 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:01 AM   #1843
dalen7
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post

How many dislocations are allowed?

What is not allowed is what you have to see in order to see it is a sport. Time to wake up I think.

Peace.G.
As for the first statement, you must not have seen: ronda rousey vs miesha tate
[warning: Graphic video - viewer discretion advised]
http://youtu.be/zHm9XjjbXIg

And if Im not mistaken she took out someone elses arm the match before.

The Gracie Bros. just did a breakdown on some guy who broke the upper arm of a guy in a match with a twist of the arm. [Dont ask me to explain the mechanics, but the pressure in the position snapped it instead of a 'simple' dislocation.]

As for the second:
What Im not seeing are Aikidoka who can take and mix their art to the intensity of the sport level to make it work... [i.e. how many Aikidoka can make their techniques work without resorting to eye gouges, etc. - and how would one know unless tried out.]

So the argument does not appear to be totally valid.

Perhaps the problem is due to how Aikido is perceived. If you look at it closely it seems that its about range.

Aikido you enter, get up close you may get in kotegaishi, etc.
But then you may go to Koshinage, [very much in the Judo realm] and then land on the floor or have someone roll out of ikkyo if not 'close' the whole time and go to BJJ.

Basically Im describing Japanese Jiu-Jitsu before it broke down into many parts.
[At least from how I see it.]

One does not have to train Aikido as a sport, but to try to implement aspects from what you see in sport would not necessarily be a bad thing.

If I were to fight someone I would not choose to strike them if I did not have to, would it not be much better to control it and have the flexibility to do what Rousey did if needed to? [Now in sport that came down to Tates ego... another topic of its own.]

And if your teaching kids martial arts... its a good idea to offer them the option of learning something that will grant them the most control as well as a back up option, if need be, of strikes, eye gouges, etc.

Peace

Dalen

dAlen [day•lynn]
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:36 AM   #1844
graham christian
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Dalen Johnson wrote: View Post
As for the first statement, you must not have seen: ronda rousey vs miesha tate
[warning: Graphic video - viewer discretion advised]
http://youtu.be/zHm9XjjbXIg

And if Im not mistaken she took out someone elses arm the match before.

The Gracie Bros. just did a breakdown on some guy who broke the upper arm of a guy in a match with a twist of the arm. [Dont ask me to explain the mechanics, but the pressure in the position snapped it instead of a 'simple' dislocation.]

As for the second:
What Im not seeing are Aikidoka who can take and mix their art to the intensity of the sport level to make it work... [i.e. how many Aikidoka can make their techniques work without resorting to eye gouges, etc. - and how would one know unless tried out.]

So the argument does not appear to be totally valid.

Perhaps the problem is due to how Aikido is perceived. If you look at it closely it seems that its about range.

Aikido you enter, get up close you may get in kotegaishi, etc.
But then you may go to Koshinage, [very much in the Judo realm] and then land on the floor or have someone roll out of ikkyo if not 'close' the whole time and go to BJJ.

Basically Im describing Japanese Jiu-Jitsu before it broke down into many parts.
[At least from how I see it.]

One does not have to train Aikido as a sport, but to try to implement aspects from what you see in sport would not necessarily be a bad thing.

If I were to fight someone I would not choose to strike them if I did not have to, would it not be much better to control it and have the flexibility to do what Rousey did if needed to? [Now in sport that came down to Tates ego... another topic of its own.]

And if your teaching kids martial arts... its a good idea to offer them the option of learning something that will grant them the most control as well as a back up option, if need be, of strikes, eye gouges, etc.

Peace

Dalen
Perception of Aikido is the problem I would say yes. Entering, the skill of, goes to many levels but the point of is missed many times. Why enter?

When a person can truly see the answer to that question then they can see the end of the situation or fight. If not then they have more to learn. Entering does not equal now do this technique or now do that one, it equals end of.

In my Aikido it equals beginning of but that's another story.

Peace.G.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:38 AM   #1845
graham christian
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
How compassionate.
Yes. Compassion opens your eyes to the stupidity.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:45 AM   #1846
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I don't need to open my eyes to stupidity. I can smell it all around.

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Old 03-12-2012, 10:48 AM   #1847
graham christian
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

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Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
However: how many necks have you broken in aikido? How many times have you struck your partner in the throat or on the adams apple with power and intention? Do you regulary bite your training partners?

The question of sport is irrelevant. You can have realistic sparring/dynamic testing and still not have competitions, you do it because it´s a learning experience.

As for dislocations: There is reason that you tap out. As for weapons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTKqYkvmdkU

And a +1 for Demetrios latest comment. The peaceful martial art that resolves conflict without violence, killing and maiming is after all a peaceful activity if done by anybody who ties on a hakama and do a couple of tenkans now and then
Perspective. Sport is sport and those things ar not allowed. On the battlefield those things are allowed. Totally different.

In a martial art you can practice facing and handling such things. You can even practice doing those things. Reality.

In Aikido you can practice harmonizing with those things. It's up to you.

Peace.G,
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:10 AM   #1848
roadtoad
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

You can only do what you practice. If you practice against sword strike, you expect to fight against sword strike. If aikido would get riid of a few 19th century anachcroisms such as sword strike, And practice against realistic attacks, such as boxing and karate blows and kicks. If so, all aikidoka would have a better chance on the street. The other things would be to show aikidoka how to block taekwondo, UFC muy thai, fma, etc, All these arts are blockable, if you know a few simple techniques. The great korean side kick can be blocked by simply jamming it, attacking the attack, a.k.a. aikido style. The muy thai kick...you have to raise your knee high, and, again, block the kick with your lower leg by moving into it. Even BJJ and UFC hold downs can be countered with simple techniques that highly resemble aikido, but on the mat.
There are many such easy techniques that can work to make aikido better.
These small little changes would make aikido completely viable in any street fight.
And, lastly, aikido techniques were really meant to do with ki. The techniques work a lot better when you have it.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:16 PM   #1849
Budd
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
A good instructor should be able to walk the spectrum and not limit it. Even if it means referring him to others.
Kev, loved this line . . totally agree and try to model it for folks I work with. There seems to sometimes be an assumption that when one gets put in the role of instructor or teacher, that they suddenly become an expert on things way outside the scope of what they're teaching (this can be an assumption held erroneously by the teacher or the student or both).

So, that being said, careful caveats and having a good network of friends that train across the martial art/sport spectrum is very useful. Having enough familiarity to have a legitimate opinion is also good, but being aware enough to know when to refer someone elsewhere is even better.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:25 PM   #1850
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Ike Spenser wrote: View Post
You can only do what you practice. If you practice against sword strike, you expect to fight against sword strike. If aikido would get riid of a few 19th century anachcroisms such as sword strike, And practice against realistic attacks, such as boxing and karate blows and kicks. If so, all aikidoka would have a better chance on the street. The other things would be to show aikidoka how to block taekwondo, UFC muy thai, fma, etc, All these arts are blockable, if you know a few simple techniques. The great korean side kick can be blocked by simply jamming it, attacking the attack, a.k.a. aikido style. The muy thai kick...you have to raise your knee high, and, again, block the kick with your lower leg by moving into it. Even BJJ and UFC hold downs can be countered with simple techniques that highly resemble aikido, but on the mat.
There are many such easy techniques that can work to make aikido better.
These small little changes would make aikido completely viable in any street fight.
And, lastly, aikido techniques were really meant to do with ki. The techniques work a lot better when you have it.
The problem as I see it is that "Aikido" is so damned big. Simply put, there are people who practice this way as part of their Aikido training. As long as the student can recognize that training paradigms are slices and not the whole pie, they'll (generally) understand there are areas which tend to be lacking in some way. When I was driving up to see what Aikido practice looked like, the student introducing me to it spoke of sparring with friends in Tae Kwon Do. It's this kind of interchange which I think addresses what you're describing.
And that says nothing about the folks who aren't training to be "martially" effective in the first place. In the world of shooting, some folks simply like plinking away at cans. They can study aspects related to hitting a target while not preparing themselves at all for a fight. This is most martial artists, in my understanding.

Gambarimashyo!
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