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Old 12-15-2000, 10:44 PM   #101
Gerardo A Torres
Dojo: Aikido West
Location: SF Bay Area, California
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Quote:
Nick wrote:

The main reason Aikidoka don't admit their prowess is:

1. Words are worthless.
2. If we should say such a thing, than we may start to believe it.
3. Anyone who says such a thing is usually pretty clueless about budo.
Yeah, I agree.

What about the confidence problem I talked about?

I notice a lot of aikidoka being attracted to some aspects of the art, but they don't think it could work in a real situation, so they don't worry about that during their training. This however, doesn't represent a problem in our aikido community. On the contrary, the different reasons why people practice are equally valued.

What's your take on this? Is there really a confidence problem or everything is fine as it is?
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Old 12-16-2000, 02:57 AM   #102
crystalwizard
Dojo: Aikido of Dallas
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There's a difference between confidence and over confidence.

And really how humble is it to go around bragging about how good you are? All that does is invite people to ask you to prove it and Aikido's not about 'proving' anything.

Aikido is about getting out of the dangerous situation...and the best way to get out of the dangerous situation is not to get into it.

Why is it that some people seem to feel it is necessary for bragging and chest beating to be done?

____________
Kelly Christiansen

A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world. Everyone you meet is your mirror
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Old 12-16-2000, 06:28 AM   #103
REK
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Quote:
crystalwizard wrote:
Why is it that some people seem to feel it is necessary for bragging and chest beating to be done?
Because, despite our insistence on our evolutionary superiority, such is human nature.

I like your tag line. I like to think I live in a loving world, but work in a hostile ward. Ah, neuropathology.

________________________
Mors certa, hora incerta
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Old 12-16-2000, 10:14 AM   #104
ian
 
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This is really to Gerardo:

I think everyone goes through confidence problems in whatever martial art they do - it means that you realise that just doing a martial art doesn't make you invincible. But I see it as a good thing; it helps you to explore why you think certain thingsa wouldn't work, and leads you to a deeper understanding of how it really should work.

If there is one thing that never ceases to amaze me with aikido techniques, is that what appears to be a nice and effective technique at the start, turns out to be a very ingenious technique with multiple options for change, excellent ways of protecting your own body whilst performing technique, and plenty of opportunities to do more damage if the situation requires it.

Ian

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Old 12-16-2000, 07:59 PM   #105
Gerardo A Torres
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I'll do my best to be clearer:

Imagine you have a physics exam tomorrow and you've studied a lot, but lack confidence in what you know and start feeling insecure. Experience tells this will affect your performance in the exam. Now apply the same situation to aikido.

Since this is a thread about aikido's combat effectiveness, my whole point was that we should be confident in the basics we have learned and believe in the art in order to perform in case of a confrontation.

I never said anything about "thinking we know everything," "going out looking for challenges," "wording out our prowess," "bragging," "chest beating" and thinking ourselves "invincible." These are ways of being arrogant, which is very different from being confident.


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Old 12-16-2000, 10:22 PM   #106
crystalwizard
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This is also mostly to Gerdo:

are you getting the idea that people are feeling insecure about their aikido because they are not willing to assume they can handle anything that comes along with it? or for some other reason?

If it's the first...why does it mean someone is insecure just because they are interested in being cautious and realistic?

____________
Kelly Christiansen

A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world. Everyone you meet is your mirror
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Old 01-06-2003, 10:16 AM   #107
JasonDelucia
Dojo: Kensho ryu
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oh ya?

i agree with george,no one has ever done aikido in ufc or any other ,but as i have said before they have as recently made it so that you wont see it either .but soon you will .please read the threads on the nhb vs aiki page (i'ld hate to re write all that)

but in short they promoters secretly curtail the ability of the athlete by making rules and intervensions just prior to the fight to acomplish this .

TO JOEY SOLA,PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO AIKIDO CAN'T DO IT IN A FIGHT .BUT IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT DONE YOU CAN FIGHT ME IN UFC AND I WILL ENLIGHTEN YOU .

JASON DELUCIA
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Old 01-06-2003, 10:59 AM   #108
john2226
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I think Larry Novick said it better than I ever could have. Reread that post. As far as Aikido not working, I find that to be false. No one cay say with 100% assurance that one style is better than another. There are always exceptions. To say one style doesnt work at all, to me seems like a very ignorant thing to say. I train in Aikido because I like the philosphy behind it. I am at heart a content and calm young man. I feel i have nothing to prove to anyone and have walked away from many fights because of it. If all else fails and I cant walk away, then i will defend myself and I believe my Aikido will carry me though. 99% of fights in my opinion are caused by guys thinking with the other head. Trying to be bad asses. I never did understand that mode of thinking. If you dont come across as a bad ass you probably wont have a problem. There are always people who wont leave you alone and they have to learn the hard way Most of the time if you say "Im sorry" and walk away its alright. The other persons ego isnt hurt and they think they won the conflict. You backed down and so they are ok with themseleves and their insecure little world. This is the way I see things. Sorry for the slight rant people.

John
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Old 01-06-2003, 11:01 AM   #109
Lyle Bogin
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Perhaps the issue is that fighting does not work in Aikido.

"The martial arts progress from the complex to the simple."
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Old 01-06-2003, 05:03 PM   #110
Judd
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
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I agree. Anyone can throw a punch, and usually, in times of panic, people resort to blows becuase it's the only thing they know. Whether it's from older brothers growing up, TV, etc, the simple act of punching is so embedded in our brains as a way of defending ourselves that is totally instinctive. Striking, in my opinion, is the wrong solution all together. Punching hurts the giver as well as the receiver, unless the giver has practiced. And in practicing, he/she has experienced pain in order to tolerate it. Enduring pain so you can deal it upon another? What point does that serve? Fighting gives resolution to nothing.
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Old 01-06-2003, 10:07 PM   #111
Chocolateuke
Dojo: Muhu Dojo
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Unhappy

er dude and your opinion is based on what?? Have you ever been in a real fight? I dont mean just with your friends messin arround, nor sparring but a real life to death sturggle? I haven't I hope to never be. If you have not been in a real fight then you have no idea if Aikido would work or not esp if you have not trained in Aikido. dude you are making bold statements remember never judge a book by its cover even if you have trainied for 4 months.

Dallas Adolphsen
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Old 01-07-2003, 09:21 AM   #112
Judd
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Technically, an opinion does not have to be based on anything. That's why it's an opinion . Regardless, my point with my above post (which may have not been overly clear) is that Aikido's focus is not on fighting at all, but rather on the time leading up to that split second before that first strike makes contact. A good practitioner (not me) could end a conflict before it could begin, thus Aikido would never NEED to be good in a fight, since the whole point is to stop one from happening in the first place. That's all what I was trying to say. Besides, there's no right or wrong answer to this quesion anyway, or even an answer to begin with, but that's just splitting hairs now...
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Old 01-07-2003, 10:59 AM   #113
JasonDelucia
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lyle bogin,truer words were never spoken.of course it is necessarily true that aikido must be competent for defense ,and by it's thearetic basis it is the perfect martial art simply because if you only move evasively the enemy will not be able to attack ,as has been my experience when i first began to apply these principles in a professional fighting ring ,i noticed that the opponent would withdraw and only comense when i would engage offensively ,which is the antithesis of the art.once you violate the principle you lose the phenomena,but then i evolved into ''suigetsu''and ''awase ho'' made sense .infact'' awase ho'' is gate way to ''take- musu ''.

i do not know if mr. adolphsen is adressing his question to me or joey sola?

but as for my experience ,i' ve been transmuting aiki through out my fighting career well over ten years and well over fiftey professional fights (documented)and all that i say is not speculative ,it's factAIKIDO WORKS IN EVERY CAPACITY PROMISSED .i am happy to share facts not trying to be offensive .but the only way to validate what we are talking about is to do it .and just remember that in his time mr.ueshiba never refused a challenge ,for a good cause ,and i think setting the example not to take a quick path is a good example.thatsjust my oppinion.

finally some people are wondering about the chest beating fighters ?me too .some people are in love with the art and others with themselves.many is the time i've suffered a loss publicly (usually injuriously)only to have the opponent, often times a steroid ridden egotist ,jumping in the air ignoring you for the crowd,but they are only human.they are validating the things they thought would make them whole .ONCE A REPORTER ASKED ME WHAT MY FOCUSS WAS ,AND WHY IT WASN'T THE TITLE BELT.MY ANSWER ,THAT I KNEW IF I COULD TRANSMUTE TO AIKIDO, THAT I COULD HAVE ANY TITLE BELT ,BEAT ANY ONE ,DO ANY THING.I KNEW MY CAREER WAS SUFFERING FROM THE CONVERSION ,AND I DIDN'T CARE .I KNEW THAT MR. UESHIBA WAS CONSIDERED TO BE IN HIS PRIME NEAR 50 YEARS OLD AND WAS EFFECTIVE TILL THE DAY HE DIED .KNOWING WHAT I KNOW NOW ,I SEE WHY .AND WHEN FIGHTERS OF MY AGE RETIRE I CAN BEAT THEM AND THEIR STUDENTS ,BECAUSE OF THE ART ,NOT THE EGO.

JASON DELUCIA
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:49 PM   #114
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
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Too much drivel ....

AIKIDO WILL NOT ... PROTECT YOU, OR WORK IN A REAL FIGHT SITUATION.

Fact is ... Aikido is merely a description of they type of practice we do.

Aikido doesn't do anything.

YOU DO!!

That out of the way, this posturing about how aikido is effective is so much drivel.

Break any teachers rythm, take away the advantage, neutralize aikido's safe practices, and there will be punches, kicks, grappling, and whole host of dirty tricks of get the advantage back into the aikido practitioners court ... I know from first hand practice of breaking form to see what instinctual measures most practicing aikido teacher from first dan to sixth dan level would do, and although it is within the movements of practiced aikido, it is always back to my old friends from Kempo Karate, Wally Jay Jujitsu. So, don't mistake the kindness of practice for the more deadly practical uses of aikido.

You ain't gonna fight with the practice methods you use to have safe practice on the mat but ...

you will find more effective uses for what you learn elsewhere, and practicing aikido will increase the effectiveness of what you would use in a fight.

If you didn't get that read it again.

Anyone, who is anyone, knows that Aikido is but a piece of the puzzle you need for your martial arts training. If you don't get it in Aikido, you will have to find it somewhere else, but in many more pieces than you would in training in Aikido.

I accept the fact that there is something of value in every martial art .... question is ... where did it come from, how did it evolve into that art, and how many uses are there for it? (It being the technique, or type of technique being taught by each different school of martial arts.)

Accept that Joeyscola planted a bomb,and we responded in typical defense way that Aikido is as good as any martial art practiced today.

Aikido is a taught as a fighting art?

Well, it isn't.

Every practitioner finds his/her own practical use for what they learn in Aikido. It is not taught in its safest form because it is not effective, it is taught in the safest form possible because it is so effective!

By itself, taught in its present form, without proper crosstraining, or at least finding the practical applications for Aikido, it is not effective for street fighting, brawling, or any other kind of MINDLESS VIOLENCE.

But ... used without fear, by someone who see's the effectiveness it brings to all the other skills you learn in seeking the martial path, that path which can hurt someone easier than it is to heal someone, you am gonna put a hurtin on some poor fool if you have to use the applications of Aikido.

Aikido helps usto find the path of the clear mind as it sees as a way to reconcile the world with the least amount of violence, especially if one can reconcile the spectre of violence with none at all.

Knowledge is as much power, as much as stupidity starts so many unnecessary fights.

You what to know what you will learn in Aikido?

You will learn how to fill in that missing piece of the martial puzzle you are searching for by crossing training and learning how to make all these arts your very own.

It damn well may even make you a better human being for it, or .... it just might break you.

Becoming non-violent does that to some tough guys.

Turns them into driveling idiots.

In other words, they are tough on the outside, but not tough on the inside where the real battle rages.

If that doesn't answer your question, come train with me for a few sessions at Long Beach Island, NJ, and you will see how a gorilla can be so gentle in practice, but use so little strength to hurt you.

Actually, my teacher hurts the new guys more than I do ... at seventy two, being half my size and weight he doesn't intimidate tough guys like I do, so I guess he is allowed to take some libertys in practice?

Last edited by Bruce Baker : 01-07-2003 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 01-07-2003, 01:01 PM   #115
Bruce Baker
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Oh, by the way, people never get hurt when they go with the flow of practice, only when they try to be BJJ, wrestlers, grapplers, or counter productive to the training process.

Just thought I would throw that in as a bone to say, I know what is like to be uke and be cranked so hard it results in injury.

That is another set of storys from training in Kempo, jujitsu....
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Old 01-07-2003, 02:56 PM   #116
Lyle Bogin
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"Oh, by the way, people never get hurt when they go with the flow of practice, only when they try to be BJJ, wrestlers, grapplers, or counter productive to the training process."

BJJ and advanced grappling is very much about going with the flow.

"The martial arts progress from the complex to the simple."
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Old 01-07-2003, 04:54 PM   #117
Bruce Baker
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Yeah I know, but they want you to do everything their way.

I just wish there was someone closer to where I live, and I would get better so I could train in BJJ somemore.

It is definitely a lot of fun.

I just feel bad about people who strain when trapped to the point they cause themselves an injury.

The thing is though ... all the fun things you would really use to hurt someone are 'out of bounds' ... maybe because egos run high and some trainees don't know when to put it away?
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Old 01-07-2003, 05:51 PM   #118
Paula Lydon
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~~Depends on your Aikido and if you subscribe to any rules or not~~

~~Paula~~
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Old 01-07-2003, 06:49 PM   #119
Chocolateuke
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Mr. Delucia I was addressing the origional poster of this thread. The main thing is we have these threads here a lot and pretty much the same responses are put out. I guess Im just curious on what the originial posters opinion is based on. thats all thank you for replying to me tho

Dallas Adolphsen
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Old 01-08-2003, 01:48 PM   #120
Judd
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Dallas - I'm sorry for my reply above, I thought you were addressing me. What a mess!
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Old 01-08-2003, 02:14 PM   #121
Tim Harley
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What you know (to the point of instinct) is what you'll use in a real life encounter. That is why you train. If you train in kickboxing, that's what you'll use in a fight. If you train in Aikido, that is what you'll use. And how much you train and how much you apply yourself during training will determine how effective you are in a real fight.

I've used the principles of Aikido in real situations. They were effective for me. But I've also used other fighting principles and they were effective too.

My $.02.



Peace.

"There is no defeat in death. Death comes to us all. Victory comes in what we do with the time we are given now."
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Old 01-08-2003, 03:10 PM   #122
Nick P.
 
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As someone greater than I once said:

"You do not rise to the level of your expectations,

You fall to the level of your training."

Train-on, Young Jedi.

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Old 01-12-2003, 12:18 AM   #123
locknthrow
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where was this thread aobut combatives vs Aikido or something like that and the one called Arrogance????
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Old 01-14-2003, 03:55 PM   #124
johnny rebb
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Re: Aikido In UFC

Quote:
Chris Owen (RoninKivjoru) wrote:
First of all, I have to say that Aikidoists have no place in a UFC, that's the whole idea of Aikido. But there is much practical knowledge to be gained in Aikido, that is more than useful on the street. First being able to judge one's Ki, and knowing whether they pose a threat. I believe that any Aikidoist who has been paying attention to the entire training of Aikido, and not just the movements, should be someone who is very hard to suprise in a street. Especially if they've become acustomed to 'keeping their head on a swivell' as my boss used to say. Secondly, being in tune with your opponents Ki, once a confrontation is unavoidable, is the best way to keep yourself from getting hurt, if you move when they move and are simply not there when the strike or attack lands, you suddenly have an advantage. HAving my base in Karate, and not Aikido, I would probably revert back to it in a real fight. But, I feel the teaching of being one with your opponent, and feeling his Ki is invaluable, and would likely not have ever been able to survive a fight without it. I have yet to come across a martial art that puts so much emphasis on this philosophy, and whether I am using Aikdio techniquees, or Karate, these will help me in all aspects of my life.
youīre all living in a fantasy world...real streetfighting is (to keep it short)UGLY!

Itīs clear to me that you donīt know shit about realworldfighting any of you.Go down to your local bad neighbourhood, pick a fight and watch yourself bleed all over the pavement.

There is nothing glorius about it in real life.
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Old 01-14-2003, 03:56 PM   #125
johnny rebb
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http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com
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