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Old 06-09-2006, 09:30 AM   #1001
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Rule #1: there is no such thing as a fair fight!
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:42 AM   #1002
Dirk Hanss
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Rule #2: there are either two winners or two loosers.

Here we have two winners, I guess
Kevin got post #1000, due to all his bjj tricks I don't say ugly as there is rule #1
Jorge gave the respond no 1000 as post 1 was the original questions.

And we have even some more winners, as nobody else has now to care, if he could get the magic number. No restless sleep or unconcentrated work in fear of not getting it

Perfect aikido and it works. In my view this is the prove.

Any comments for starting the race to get the 10 000?


Dirk
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Old 06-09-2006, 09:51 AM   #1003
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Damn! never thought about 1000 RESPONSES! I was focused on 1000 post! Ah...aikido and the illusive paradigm at work! Thanks for pointing that out Dirk.
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Old 06-09-2006, 10:21 AM   #1004
Jorge Garcia
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Wow Dirk,
You're smart! You really double made my day! It turns out I was the official 1000th poster and I wasn't even trying. Sorry Kevin. I'll lend you my trophy anytime you want to look at it.

Best wishes,

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:12 AM   #1005
dps
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Reaching over 1000 posts. Does this mean the thread is over, or do you guys have enough stamina to go to 2000 posts?
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:49 AM   #1006
Budd
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

What was the topic again? Oh, yeah . . . . Yes, it does.
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Old 06-09-2006, 12:17 PM   #1007
Mark Freeman
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
oh look...we are at 1000! couldn't resist! timing and Ma'ai are everything.
You've had your eye on the target for quite a long time, but, good technique Kevin

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 06-09-2006, 01:07 PM   #1008
Dajo251
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

this is the thread that never ends yes it goes on and on my friends, when we started posting in it we didnt know what it ment then we realized that this is the thread that never ends.........

Dan Hulley
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Old 06-10-2006, 07:52 AM   #1009
dps
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Post #1

On 10-17-2000, 05:14 PM

"joeysola posted,

"
Quote:
wrote:
I have competed in both boxing and wrestling and I am now training in brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I have watched many No Holds Barred competitions, like the UFC, and it is clear to me that Aikido and it's techniques and it's way of training do not prepare anyone to actually fight. I know that Aikido practitioners talk a lot about concepts like spirituality, harmony...etc. but I also hear people talk about how it is a pratical means of self defense. Aikido does not have practical striking techniques or any REAL matwork at all. I would like to know how Aikido can be used as self defense if you cannot grapple or strike.
Interesting question, what do you guys think?

Last edited by dps : 06-10-2006 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:32 AM   #1010
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

The more I practice Aikido the more I'm understanding how striking isn't the end all of self defense.

I'm of the opinion that you don't need to hit someone to hurt them. More than a few techniques I've seen would result in some serious injury if don't without regard for the other persons safty. Broken wrists, arms, dislocated shoulders, concussions. It sounds crude but if you break someones hand wrist or arm their going to have a hard time punching you regardless how skilled at striking they are. Same goes if you land them on their head and knock them out. NOT striking someone comes with two important pros in my book. Your not busting up your hand AND legal wise (correct me if i'm wrong) your on more stable ground. "I never hit him"
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Old 06-10-2006, 01:22 PM   #1011
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Yea if you can get those arms and wrist in a position to break it works. I have never been able to do a very good job at doing this full speed. arm bars yes. Sometimes kotegaehsi, but the amount of effort and commitment to get them to break in a real fight can be alot.

I think it is more important to learn how to position yourself and control uke than anything else. If you can do that, then you are able to do the other things. the catch is if you can control this much, do you really need to invest the effort it takes to break something?

Yea hitting with your fist can really ruin your day!
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Old 06-11-2006, 04:30 AM   #1012
Dirk Hanss
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Grant Wagar wrote:
NOT striking someone comes with two important pros in my book. Your not busting up your hand AND legal wise (correct me if i'm wrong) your on more stable ground. "I never hit him"
Not a correction, it is mostly easier, if you can say "I never hit him". It is just not always sufficient.
I was just told about an incident, where a tiny female jujutsuka was attack by a huge strong man. She was sued and fined for violently injuring him.
The (German) judge admitted a self defense situation, but as the guy had two broken arm and one broken leg, he could not understand the SD situation still applicable, when the third bon was broken. Well obviously one after the other and not an unlucky breakfall.

Dirk
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:48 AM   #1013
Guilty Spark
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
I was just told about an incident, where a tiny female jujutsuka was attack by a huge strong man. She was sued and fined for violently injuring him.
Unfortunately as silly as this is, thats the society we live in now.
If someone tries to rob (and possibly kill) you and you defending yourself end up really hurting him, well guess what.... you're going to have to pay for his injuries. Thats probably subject to argument but I think there are ample cases where injured criminals while breaking the law get hurt and turn around and sue someone.

Right out to lunch.
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Old 06-11-2006, 01:33 PM   #1014
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Dirk Hanss wrote:
t.
I was just told about an incident, where a tiny female jujutsuka was attack by a huge strong man. She was sued and fined for violently injuring him.
Paging Jorge....

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 06-11-2006, 02:00 PM   #1015
Jorge Garcia
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote:
Paging Jorge....
Michael, you're funny!

Was that judo or BJJ she was using? Didn't it say a Jujutsuka? Better find out what art that was!
By the way, a tiny woman can take down a larger man, just not all tiny women.

Best wishes,

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 06-11-2006, 02:06 PM   #1016
Aristeia
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I'm here all week, try the veal.
You're right about the percentages thing. We just differ on which arts give the best percentages for the person concerned.

"When your only tool is a hammer every problem starts to look like a nail"
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Old 06-11-2006, 05:07 PM   #1017
Jorge Garcia
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I think that's right.
Best,

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 06-12-2006, 09:33 AM   #1018
MikeLogan
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Ok, ok, finish with your celebrating. This thread won't post itself to 2000, you know.

michael.
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Old 06-13-2006, 09:18 AM   #1019
Richard Langridge
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Heh, it doesn't need to.
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:50 AM   #1020
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Michael Fooks wrote:
I suspect you're confusing Bas's well known humour with reality.
The DVD was marketed as instructional, not comedy.

A secret of internal strength?:
"Let your weight from the crotch area BE in his hands."
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Old 06-14-2006, 01:09 AM   #1021
topan tantudo
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Hi cheer everyone

Well in my point of view, Aikido is more than just for a show off. Once you have mastered Aikido like O-sensei, you dont have to grab your opponent hands to put him/her on the mat. just follow the Ki rhytem. so i think it would be better you practice or study the aikido first then you can judge it.

Cheer up everyone.
Kimi wa kimi desu!!
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Old 06-14-2006, 03:02 AM   #1022
Richard Langridge
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Topan Tantudo wrote:

Kimi wa kimi desu!!
"The feeling is the feeling" ?
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Old 06-22-2006, 08:25 PM   #1023
drew-jitsu
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Topan Tantudo wrote:
Hi cheer everyone

Well in my point of view, Aikido is more than just for a show off. Once you have mastered Aikido like O-sensei, you dont have to grab your opponent hands to put him/her on the mat. just follow the Ki rhytem. so i think it would be better you practice or study the aikido first then you can judge it.

Cheer up everyone.
Kimi wa kimi desu!!

therein lies the paradox. O'sensei achieved his proficiency by ACTUALLY FIGHTING!!! Then later in life advocated not fighting. In order to achieve the proficiency O'sensei attained, you HAVE TO FIGHT against fully resisting opponents. And as far as your "Ki rhytem" (sic), try using that against a non complient uke, and you will get your arse handed to you. This is why aikido 99% of the time will not work in an actual physical altercation the way it is currently trained. I kinda find it funny that the aikido community actually had to develop a quote to defend against it's effectiveness, i.e. "My aikido works, yours does not." Aikido in my opinion does have useful applicable techniques. They just need to be trained in a manner that makes them effective. It's obvious by the examples set by O'sensei that aikido can be effective. Why the aikido community chooses to be passive aggressive in it's philosophy is its downfall.
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Old 06-22-2006, 08:50 PM   #1024
Hardware
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Drew Nichols wrote:
therein lies the paradox. O'sensei achieved his proficiency by ACTUALLY FIGHTING!!! Then later in life advocated not fighting. In order to achieve the proficiency O'sensei attained, you HAVE TO FIGHT against fully resisting opponents. And as far as your "Ki rhytem" (sic), try using that against a non complient uke, and you will get your arse handed to you. This is why aikido 99% of the time will not work in an actual physical altercation the way it is currently trained. I kinda find it funny that the aikido community actually had to develop a quote to defend against it's effectiveness, i.e. "My aikido works, yours does not." Aikido in my opinion does have useful applicable techniques. They just need to be trained in a manner that makes them effective. It's obvious by the examples set by O'sensei that aikido can be effective. Why the aikido community chooses to be passive aggressive in it's philosophy is its downfall.
At the risk of feeding the troll...

Sure, there are lots of Aikidoka who would be ineffective in real combat but that can apply to any martial art. Within any style or art, there will be some junior ranks who can consistently overcome senior ranks as well.

There is no competition or sparring in Aikido for a number of reasons, a predominant one being that the technques can be so devastating that to a certain extent, to practice them, the Uke must comply (ultimately in order to avoid serious injury).

Concessions, for lack of a better word, are made in all martial arts. In Karatedo I'm sure they avoid punching each other full force in the face and we don't judge that because of that, their art is ineffective...
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Old 06-22-2006, 09:17 PM   #1025
drew-jitsu
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Howard Dyke wrote:
At the risk of feeding the troll...

Sure, there are lots of Aikidoka who would be ineffective in real combat but that can apply to any martial art. Within any style or art, there will be some junior ranks who can consistently overcome senior ranks as well.

There is no competition or sparring in Aikido for a number of reasons, a predominant one being that the technques can be so devastating that to a certain extent, to practice them, the Uke must comply (ultimately in order to avoid serious injury).

Concessions, for lack of a better word, are made in all martial arts. In Karatedo I'm sure they avoid punching each other full force in the face and we don't judge that because of that, their art is ineffective...

No troll here. I just noticed that the thread was at the bottom of the page, and I didn't want it to die. However, regarding your concessions as to going all out, there are arts that do go 100% i.e. BJJ and Judo. Also, anytime someone mentions Ki throws, I find it to be the epitome of delusional.
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