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Old 01-28-2006, 04:29 PM   #551
Edwin Neal
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

george i'm glad i was not the only one to read that extremely long paper on self defense in asian philosophies and religions... i found the parts about gandhi and south east asia particularly informative...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-02-2006, 08:23 AM   #552
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I gave a rather short answer to the question of "is violence ever really necessary". Larry C. posted an article that displays the reason for that short answer rather well. George's post also details my summary well.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...432#post129432

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:16 PM   #553
Edwin Neal
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

violence is 'never' necessary... with of course the philosophical loophole that aikido is not violent, because nage's intention is non violent ie the loving protection of uke... using only what response is necessary to resolve the conflict... it may look violent from the sidelines, but as long as your heart is pure, and not with violent intent, then it is okay...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-06-2006, 12:03 PM   #554
justinmaceachern
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

THIS IS FOR EVERYONE ON THIS THREAD. i BOUNCED INA BAR FOR A YEAR AND A HALF. AND I WILL TELL YOU STRAIGHT UP IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE, IF YOU UNDERSTAND AIKIDO. IN A BAR LIKE SETTING THE PRACTIONER IS ALWAYS GOING TO PREVAIL. BUT ON THE STREET YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. I HAVE USED AIKIDO ON THE STREETS (NOT PROUD AT ALL TO SAY THAT) BUT I HAVE. AND IN MY OPINION WHO EVER HAS THE KNOWLEGE TO OVER CME WILL WIN. AND AS FAR AS UFC GOES, ANYONE CAN FIGHT ONE PERSON.
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Old 02-06-2006, 12:14 PM   #555
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Yow...could you please not shout? Typing in all caps is hard to read, and considered kind of rude on the internet.

Thanks,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 02-06-2006, 12:17 PM   #556
justinmaceachern
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Sorry Ron i didnt realize until after the post
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Old 02-06-2006, 02:22 PM   #557
nathansnow
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Hey Joe,
The UFC isn't that good. I would much rather watch PRIDE. They have alot more skilled fighters and their technique is much better! BJJ is very effective and wrestling is ok, but what good is it to take someone to the ground and put a nice lock on them when his buddies can walk over and start kicking you in the head??? People on the street don't fight fare and their friends probably won't hesitate to jump right in. I would rather stay on my feet and have the option of fight and flight!! I think aikido does an excellent job of this.
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Old 02-06-2006, 02:33 PM   #558
Edwin Neal
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

i think the better part of BJJ and wrestling is that you can escape and get back to your feet to avoid the stomps/kicks to the head...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-07-2006, 10:21 AM   #559
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I thought of some wonderful and factual replies, but I will settle on:

To some degree, generalizations contain some truth. However, the generalization is rarely the truth.

There are many 'types' of fighting - wrestling, escrima, TKD, judo, jujitsu, aikido, kung fu, savate, etc... Each has techniques for 'fighting' or facing single opponents and multiple opponents --thus it is a martial art...

As someone who has studied jujitsu, I would rather stay on my feet than grapple--I like strikes, throws, and joint locks that let me remain mobile. You have to ask yourself: 'What is your goal and who (a drunk, many people, etc.) is your opponent?' Is your goal to get a quick tap? Is it to defeat the opponent? Is it to survive? Must you fight more than one person or a single individual? Each of the encounters listed above may dictate different methods.

Each martial art serves a purpose -- mainly to give you confidence so that you don't 'freeze like a deer in headlights' and are able to respond to an attack/situation. Which art you use and how adept you are at the art depends on many factors.

Just a question...could you have tapped those participants in the UFO who were not using Aikido? Perhaps it is the skill of each person rather than the art itself that determined the outcome...

Perspective...

C

Last edited by Counsel : 02-07-2006 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 02-07-2006, 10:51 AM   #560
justinmaceachern
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I just want to say that i agree with James. It has more to do with the person then the art. that is why you can take someone who is lets say a black belt in this art, put him against a guy who is considerbly of less rank in a nther art. and who wins? A lot of people will say the black belt, the black belt will win. But nobody knows. There is no actual way to determin that. I will tell i know and have met some "Brawlers" in my time that have never had any jujitsu or tkd or anything, and I have watched them dismantle people of high rank, of low rank. or nothing. You guys see what i am getting at. Its cool to feel pacionate about your art but to put another down is plain ignorant in my books.
Of course thats just my opinion, and as always no offense meant.
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Old 02-07-2006, 11:14 AM   #561
Dajo251
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
James Taylor wrote:
I thought of some wonderful and factual replies, but I will settle on:

To some degree, generalizations contain some truth. However, the generalization is rarely the truth.

There are many 'types' of fighting - wrestling, escrima, TKD, judo, jujitsu, aikido, kung fu, savate, etc... Each has techniques for 'fighting' or facing single opponents and multiple opponents --thus it is a martial art...

As someone who has studied jujitsu, I would rather stay on my feet than grapple--I like strikes, throws, and joint locks that let me remain mobile. You have to ask yourself: 'What is your goal and who (a drunk, many people, etc.) is your opponent?' Is your goal to get a quick tap? Is it to defeat the opponent? Is it to survive? Must you fight more than one person or a single individual? Each of the encounters listed above may dictate different methods.

Each martial art serves a purpose -- mainly to give you confidence so that you don't 'freeze like a deer in headlights' and are able to respond to an attack/situation. Which art you use and how adept you are at the art depends on many factors.

Just a question...could you have tapped those participants in the UFO who were not using Aikido? Perhaps it is the skill of each person rather than the art itself that determined the outcome...

Perspective...

C
well put

Dan Hulley
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Old 02-07-2006, 01:53 PM   #562
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

James Taylor: Agree with most of what you said. Good comments. You do have to consider the scenario, rules (implied and explicit), and many other factors. Of course staying on your feet is preferred. Find me a qualified BJJ guy who thinks otherwise!. BJJ simply trains a particular focus that they have found effective. Much of BJJ is cultural- the strategy is based on fighting attitudes and "rules" considered to be the norm/value with in their culture.

I know it is semantics, but the only thing I would change in your comments is that the (strategy) " dictates which art you will use" to the Strategy dictates what methods you will use. I tend to be sensitive to the paradigm of "art". In a real fight (tm)...you don't use an art, but tactics that may or may not come from your study of an art...what is employed are techniques and principles that don't necessarily fit into the parameters of the "art".
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Old 02-07-2006, 07:03 PM   #563
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Talking Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
I know it is semantics, but the only thing I would change in your comments is that the (strategy) " dictates which art you will use" to the Strategy dictates what methods you will use. I tend to be sensitive to the paradigm of "art". In a real fight (tm)...you don't use an art, but tactics that may or may not come from your study of an art...what is employed are techniques and principles that don't necessarily fit into the parameters of the "art".
I meant to say 'technique' -- I got carried away!

Of Course... My techniques ARE art.....

C
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:39 PM   #564
Raspado
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

You guys are all delusional and believe your own BS.
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:47 PM   #565
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
could you have tapped those participants in the UFO who were not using Aikido?
I will state without qualification that I have never 'tapped' anyone or anything in a UFO.

Best,
Ron (can you 'tap' with flippers??)

Ron Tisdale
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:00 PM   #566
Dajo251
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I came back into this thread with a serious mind set and Ron, you completely ruined that,
thank you

Dan Hulley
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:55 PM   #567
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

My work here is done....{sigh}

B,
R

Ron Tisdale
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Old 02-10-2006, 02:54 PM   #568
SMART2o
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

[quote=Jorgen Matsi]

To Brian... I'd say... when he says "choke me" punch him. When says "punch me", clinch and do a takedown. See what happens then.

QUOTE]

That might be worth doing during private instruction, but to do so during class time would probably be considered pretty disrespectful to the sensei.
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Old 02-11-2006, 09:54 AM   #569
CNYMike
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

[quote=Mark Chalmers]
Quote:
Jorgen Matsi wrote:

To Brian... I'd say... when he says "choke me" punch him. When says "punch me", clinch and do a takedown. See what happens then.

QUOTE]

That might be worth doing during private instruction, but to do so during class time would probably be considered pretty disrespectful to the sensei.
I agree. Regardless of what happens --- whether you get the bragging rights for "proving" Aikido doesn't work or go through flying through the far wall -- all you do is make yourself look like a horse's @$$. I'd never do it. EVER.
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Old 02-14-2006, 09:14 AM   #570
Justin Gaar
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I knew this was coming. When i thread goes on for too long people start getting a tad bit frustrated. Guys we're all civil people *i hope* can act the way that alot of us have trained a long time to understand? Accepting and patient. Geez. Mark. You should be one of the most patient people on here.

If you arrest a mime, do you have tell him he has the right to remain silent?
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:38 AM   #571
James Davis
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Justin Gaar wrote:
Geez. Mark. You should be one of the most patient people on here.
Because he's Canadian?

"The only difference between Congress and drunken sailors is that drunken sailors spend their own money." -Tom Feeney, representative from Florida
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Old 02-14-2006, 04:00 PM   #572
Justin Gaar
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

No because he's one of the most senior of us. Not a reference to age as much as it is to experience

If you arrest a mime, do you have tell him he has the right to remain silent?
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Old 02-14-2006, 05:29 PM   #573
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Wink Well, 570+ posts later and we're still 'fighting the good fight'.

Hello Everyone,

I'm literally amazed at the size of this thread...sitting here beside myself really. For my contribution I would like to ask a few simple questions...

Q: What is a Martial Art without a person to employ it or a context within which it is employed?

A: Non-existent. Yet, conflict remains a constant in nature. When we objectify conflict, we are attempting to represent in a finite syllabus of external physical techniques, the myriad of parameters known or otherwise, that constitute the human condition. So, regardless of the abstract or applied models we employ as humans, conflict remains constant, and no Martial Art is conducive to expressing the full range of human potential regardless of context.

Q: If your mind can experience conflict without physical contact, is conflict purely physical?

A: No. Our perception of the world is based on our paradigms or worldview; you can only perceive what you believe is possible, otherwise you wouldn't have a frame of reference in which to put it into context, and the human brain cannot tell the difference between what the eyes see and what it remembers seeing -- seeing really IS believing.


So, what is the point of all of all of that? As it pertains to this discussion, who prevails in a conflict is entirely dependent upon the myriad of parameters of those involved, and their subjective perceptions of what transpired, not an externalized finite heuristic model of strategic interaction [physical or otherwise]. Even Miyamoto Musashi said that strategy had nothing to do with his victories -- he formulated Go Rin No Sho after reflecting back upon his life.

People interact with people, not abstract models of behavior.

Peace,

Ward
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Old 02-14-2006, 06:15 PM   #574
Edwin Neal
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

short answer aikido works in a fight... keeping the thread alive...

Edwin Neal


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Old 02-15-2006, 04:33 AM   #575
Nick Simpson
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

If its in a 'fight' is it still aikido? Is it still aiki? I spose it would depend on how it was employed and what the end result to the assailant is/was.

'Aikido works, yours doesnt...' so the saying goes.

I have used the principle of irimi successfully, but the end result was not particularly aiki...

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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