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Old 11-05-2004, 06:57 PM   #526
Michael Cangemi
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Quote:
Neil Mick wrote:
It is very dangerous to underestimate (or "misunderestimate," per a fave Bush'ism) Bush: personally, I don't think he's stupid...incompetent, maybe..
Yeah, that's true. I just can't shake the vibe I get from him -- like he's some kind of puppet for his party, a tool or something (well, he IS a tool, but you know what I mean.)

Quote:
I'm sure you've heard about the supposed wire Bush was wearing, during the debates (see David Lindorff's article on Slate.com). The real question isn't "was he wearing a wire;" it's "why would he need to wear one?"
"Hey, Bush's lips are moving, but that sounds like Dick Cheney's voice!" Sleep deprivation is kicking in, that seemed funny when I wrote it. Nevermind...

Quote:
Bush simply isn't interested in learning the complexities of issues, travels little and reads even less. He knows what his vision of the world is, and he is satisfied with the narrow window of his projections.
That reminds me of a great Rush song called Territories -- there's a line in there that goes "better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." That really doesn't have much to do with anything, really. I just like Rush, that's all.

Quote:
But, don't be fooled into thinking he's stupid. Dismissing his stupidity is a pitfall into dismissing how dangerous, his Admin is.
Very good advice. My hope is that over the next four years, a few million more people get turned on to that idea and make a better choice next time around. I get the bad feeling that in 2008 it'll be Jeb's turn, and I've got to say the day a guy named Jeb is in charge, well...you know.
 
Old 11-05-2004, 09:39 PM   #527
Neil Mick
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Quote:
Michael Cangemi wrote:
That reminds me of a great Rush song called Territories -- there's a line in there that goes "better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled." That really doesn't have much to do with anything, really. I just like Rush, that's all.
Oh, I dunno: I think the quote's relevant (and, I have a guilty pleasure for Rush, as well )

Quote:
Very good advice. My hope is that over the next four years, a few million more people get turned on to that idea and make a better choice next time around.
We'll see: if anyone deserves the "most likely to be impeached" award, it had to be Bush, for his first term. And yet: the guy gets re-elected!

My guts tell me some major rigging, was going on. But, all I have is my intuition, and some initial investigations...too early to tell, for sure.

Quote:
I get the bad feeling that in 2008 it'll be Jeb's turn, and I've got to say the day a guy named Jeb is in charge, well...you know.
brr...scary....
 
Old 11-10-2004, 09:28 AM   #528
vanstretch
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Re: Anti-Americanism

give it a rest lefto's . He won by 4million votes. The people of this country are sick of the nonsense dribble and negativity of the left and have raised their middle fingers to you. Bush has stuck to his word. Is a man of honor, and is bringing the fight to the enemy. He is unapologetic and is focused on the tasks at hand. Regardless if it offends your fragile sensibilities. The left is bitter and mainly on the negative. Every time I see one of your spokesmen on cnn, it sounds like the whinings of some bigcrybaby who just got beat up in the schoolhouse playground and is proceeding to tattle. Get over it. and instead of being such finger pointers,try being patriotic and supporting your president. Now that would be a novel idea eh?
 
Old 11-10-2004, 11:00 AM   #529
Hogan
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Quote:
daniel vanhee wrote:
give it a rest lefto's . He won by 4million votes. The people of this country are sick of the nonsense dribble and negativity of the left and have raised their middle fingers to you. Bush has stuck to his word. Is a man of honor, and is bringing the fight to the enemy. He is unapologetic and is focused on the tasks at hand. Regardless if it offends your fragile sensibilities. The left is bitter and mainly on the negative. Every time I see one of your spokesmen on cnn, it sounds like the whinings of some bigcrybaby who just got beat up in the schoolhouse playground and is proceeding to tattle. Get over it. and instead of being such finger pointers,try being patriotic and supporting your president. Now that would be a novel idea eh?
That's pretty funny. They CAN'T ! The democrats are incredably self-centered and arrogant, believing they know what's best for all and seemingly unable to come to grips with those that don't see things there way.

Nice thought, you had, though....
 
Old 11-10-2004, 01:23 PM   #530
Hogan
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Hmmm, maybe bringing freedom to the Mid East WILL work....

"Despite the belief that poverty nurtures terrorism, a new study shows that there is no link between the two.

The study, however, did find that with the exception of totalitarian regimes the more political freedom a country affords, the less likely it is to be hit with terrorism.

The study conducted by an associate professor at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government and outlined in a school newspaper examined the nearly 1,800 reports of domestic and international terrorism last year with respect to a number of variables, and found that political freedom was one of the only variables that related to levels of terrorism."
 
Old 11-10-2004, 04:51 PM   #531
deepsoup
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Quote:
daniel vanhee wrote:
and is bringing the fight to the enemy.
Not half as fast as he's bringing new enemies to the fight.
 
Old 11-10-2004, 05:00 PM   #532
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Quote:
John Hogan wrote:
...The study conducted by an associate professor at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government and outlined in a school newspaper examined the nearly 1,800 reports of domestic and international terrorism last year with respect to a number of variables, and found that political freedom was one of the only variables that related to levels of terrorism."
The link: http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...05-terror.html
 
Old 11-10-2004, 05:48 PM   #533
vanstretch
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Re: Anti-Americanism

John ,that is pure horseshit. Dont start quoting some hawvawd professor either. Look at the US ;poverty sticken areas are riddled with crime and most of the criminal element live in these dumps, there is a direct correlation. Im not here to walk on eggshells for you or anyone else, so please gimme a break with that study conducted nonsense. Higher education? New Study? Try a ride-a-long and look deeper into "tried and true" studies. But hey, what do I know?
 
Old 11-11-2004, 02:48 AM   #534
Taliesin
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Daniel

Bush - A Man of Honor??? Focused on the tasks in hand??? (like hunting down Osama Bin Laden, or do you mean ensuring profits for the Oil companies).

OK he won and we have to deal with the consequences. But PLEASE try to remember things like FACTS and EVIDENCE. You might also remember that your country was founded on complaints against the injustices of the then current administration.

By the way Patriotism is lover of your country. That means being prepared to make criticisms to make it a better place. Jingoism is "my county right or wrong". And you don't seem to be able to reach even that standard.
 
Old 11-11-2004, 07:07 AM   #535
Hogan
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Quote:
daniel vanhee wrote:
John ,that is pure horseshit. Dont start quoting some hawvawd professor either. Look at the US ;poverty sticken areas are riddled with crime and most of the criminal element live in these dumps, there is a direct correlation. Im not here to walk on eggshells for you or anyone else, so please gimme a break with that study conducted nonsense. Higher education? New Study? Try a ride-a-long and look deeper into "tried and true" studies. But hey, what do I know?
I take it you don't agree with it, then....
 
Old 11-11-2004, 07:08 AM   #536
Hogan
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote:
Thanks for the link !
 
Old 11-11-2004, 08:59 AM   #537
vanstretch
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Re: Anti-Americanism

That piece of useless trash Michael Moore should bow his head in shame. The lefts instigating,bitter, sore-loser, attitude has only contributed to the divisiveness we have had up to now. How about supporting your President? Every one of you that find reason against President Bush have merely sounded like whining crybabys. That includes your talking heads on cspan. It sickens me that you who do so, forget that a Man of Honor and Honest Dignity is bringing the war to those that attacked us. I dont take lead from some armchair liberal up at Harvard,I take lead from the guy in the trench. Today is Veterans Day. Show some respect!!
 
Old 11-11-2004, 09:01 AM   #538
vanstretch
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Hell, from now on-everyday is Veterans Day!
 
Old 11-11-2004, 10:23 AM   #539
mj
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Re: Anti-Americanism

It's called Remembrance Day. It's f all to do with 'veterans'...it's to commemorate all who die in all wars....don't try to dirty it with your nasty little reconstructionism.

Thoroughly nasty little man. Can't even address people with common decency.

 
Old 11-11-2004, 10:33 AM   #540
deepsoup
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Quote:
daniel vanhee wrote:
It sickens me that you who do so, forget that a Man of Honor and Honest Dignity is bringing the war to those that attacked us.
I guess you're one of the majority of republican voters who still think Saddam Hussein was somehow involved in the Sept 11 atrocity, after even Bush himself has had to admit there has never been a shred of evidence of collaberation between Saddam and Bin Laden.

Invading Iraq to "take the war to those who attacked us" makes about as much sense as if Roosevelt had bombed Sweden in response to Pearl Harbour.

I'm not even going to bother responding to "Honor and Honest Dignity". Though I do at least have to admit that Bush is a little brighter than I thought - he's at least an averagely bright American, in the sense that half the US population seem to be even dumber than him.

Sean
x

Last edited by deepsoup : 11-11-2004 at 10:35 AM.
 
Old 11-11-2004, 11:31 AM   #541
Neil Mick
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Quote:
Sean Orchard wrote:
I guess you're one of the majority of republican voters who still think Saddam Hussein was somehow involved in the Sept 11 atrocity, after even Bush himself has had to admit there has never been a shred of evidence of collaberation between Saddam and Bin Laden.
You got it, Sean: he even said as much, at one point.

Please, folks: don't feed the troll. Just put him on ignore, and let him go eat thread-lock, somewhere else.
 
Old 11-11-2004, 12:37 PM   #542
vanstretch
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Re: Anti-Americanism

No troll, just speaking my mind, as you do Neil, Your love of orating your bile goes way too far. You Mick should show much more respect for others than you do. Our vets are doing a great job. Its pointless arguing with you because its so circular and insaine. I will continue to make my points as you do. I dont need you nor care if you opt to ignore or not. There are many others that agree with what Bush is doing and what I am saying. How dare you take position as thread manager. You remind me of a grown up tattletale.The nerd with the slide ruler. Everyone hates that kinda guy. You could do better, try.
 
Old 11-11-2004, 12:38 PM   #543
vanstretch
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Re: Anti-Americanism

And Mick, I'm not going anywhere-and i hope that chaps your ass!
 
Old 11-11-2004, 12:46 PM   #544
mj
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Quote:
daniel vanhee wrote:
You remind me of a grown up ....
Indeed.

 
Old 11-11-2004, 12:52 PM   #545
akiy
 
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Hi folks,

Please watch your tone in your postings. Thank you.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
 
Old 11-11-2004, 01:07 PM   #546
vanstretch
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Look, I am not here to try to get anyone to agree with me. This is an open forum and I will exercize my ability to speak my mind. I am not in a battle with anyone either. I am frustrated with the armchair quarterbackers who go on in their long threads,citing stories/bits that try to prove their points. Hey lets quote this Harvard professor,or that news bit,that'll make our arguement stronger. Debating doesnt do much good. We may disagree on many points.Thats a given. I support what W is doing and had been doing,before all this division began. I dont like whining and it seems the left is doing the bulk of that. I'll work on keeping name calling in check. It just pisses me off that you left side folks dont support or want to come together and be part of a great nation of people comming together.we are at war and bringing the fight to those that attacked us. It is so easy to point out anothers faults. Hell, thats simple, I dont like myself when I do it and I deplore it in others as well. I was a soldier and a police officer and I will speak, and continue to speak in support of President Bush, he is doing the best he can and I am certain his tasks are very difficult as are his decisions.
 
Old 11-11-2004, 01:32 PM   #547
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Many of the so-called left may not like the direction we are headed as a nation, but they still are american's and support america. Maybe not quite the way you like.

I think we are all frustrated as a nation on both sides of the house, and there is fault to be found on both the left and the right, as much as there is good on both sides.

I believe it to be much more important to discuss how we can best resolve our issues and reach peace than to get caught up in emotions and result to personal attacks and name calling. It certainly is not in the spirit of Aikido for sure.

There are those on the right that don't want to come together anymore than some of those on the left. Our leaders have moved on past the election...it is probably time all of us do to and figure out ways to address our problems.

Your role in society be it a soldier, police officer, peace corps worker, or green peace volunteer, does not give you a sense of entitlement that you are more of an american than those that do not share your views or opinions...All are americans. We should rejoice on this Veteran's day that we have the ability to have opinions and freely discuss them!
 
Old 11-11-2004, 01:41 PM   #548
vanstretch
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Well Kevin, I think it does. I think that ones role in society does show and prove(through actions) that some of us are much more patriotic and american than others. Hey, if you opt to whine and complain about everything and take a victim mentality then that speaks volumes about you. From what I have been hearing on this particular thread, I question the very americanism/patrioitism of many of the left-side posters. It is of great concern.
 
Old 11-11-2004, 03:23 PM   #549
Neil Mick
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Re: Anti-Americanism

Daniel makes his reasons for posting quite clear, here:

Quote:
daniel vanhee wrote:
Debating doesnt do much good
It's not about debate, or presenting his view. He doesn't even get why he's on my Ignore list--he confuses disrespect, with dissent, and dissent with disrespect. He believes that criticizing one's President during wartime is unpatriotic (as if. I wonder what aphorisms of virtue he spouted during Clinton's regime, when we've been at a CONSTANT state of war since the late 50's, so going by his logic: it's unpatriotic to criticize ANY President, for ANYTHING).

Just the other day, I had a Sensei in my dojo come up to me and congratulate me on my posts about the election. Some ppl find my views insightful, and my links informative.

Thank you Sensei, and all the others who hold this view. That's the reason I post. But, ppl such as Daniel V., JMcG, et al: get this weird idea that their posts are equivalent to defending the Consititution, or whatever.

Two words for ya: grow up. I have no problem discussing issues with anyone, so long as they don't get directly personal. Call my ideas treasonous bunk, say that I fill my head with garbage, suggest that my posts are endangering the troops, or any other kind of vitriol you wish to dump on my views. My views are not me, and they're open-game.

Insulting me, personally, however: is crossing the line of respect.


Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
Many of the so-called left may not like the direction we are headed as a nation, but they still are american's and support america. Maybe not quite the way you like.

I think we are all frustrated as a nation on both sides of the house, and there is fault to be found on both the left and the right, as much as there is good on both sides.
Good to hear from you again, Kevin. Nice post.

Yes, there IS some good on both sides. I might also point out that there are more than two sides, in this debate. Kerry was not "my" candidate, and my response to his announcement that he's going to run in '08, is "thanks, John: but you bailed on us, in your promise to hold firm till the last vote was counted. Why should we trust you now?"

Quote:
I believe it to be much more important to discuss how we can best resolve our issues and reach peace than to get caught up in emotions and result to personal attacks and name calling. It certainly is not in the spirit of Aikido for sure.
Yes.

Quote:
There are those on the right that don't want to come together anymore than some of those on the left. Our leaders have moved on past the election...it is probably time all of us do to and figure out ways to address our problems.
Sorry, you lost me here. The election has been rigged, and the only question is how extensive, was the rigging. THe American public have a right to know if the election was their true voice, or if it was selectively altered, to fit the Party du jour.

Quote:
Your role in society be it a soldier, police officer, peace corps worker, or green peace volunteer, does not give you a sense of entitlement that you are more of an american than those that do not share your views or opinions...All are americans.
Thank you! Round of applause! Coming from a soldier, this sentiment means a lot. I get SO tired of hearing "I am/was in the military, so k-ss my a--" nonsense. How disrespectful to all of the teachers, doctors, artists, firemen, police officers, honest politicians (yeah, there are a few), and so many others that are the good, of this country.

It's just a shame that our leaders wash away all that is good, and bring Abu Ghraib, Falluja atrocities, and Gitmo extraditions to the forefront, of the American vista.

Quote:
We should rejoice on this Veteran's day that we have the ability to have opinions and freely discuss them!
I'll rejoice, when we get our gov't back, and we leave Iraq, and this sham of a "war on terror," behind. Until then: I mourn, I protest, I present my views, and (offline) I organize.

Last edited by Neil Mick : 11-11-2004 at 03:28 PM.
 
Old 11-11-2004, 03:56 PM   #550
vanstretch
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Re: Anti-Americanism

hypersensitive arent we neil? You have a knack for twisting every word and not necessarily hearing/listening to anything that does not suit you. You are certainly not the innocent one here either my Dear Mr. Mick.You have slung as much,maybe more mud, than the rest of these here posters.You, to me , appear to be a very close-minded individual. This is not a personal attack, it is my observation of how you answer most anyone who disagrees with you. You say "My views are not me", what..what does that mean?
 

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