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Old 01-23-2003, 01:46 PM   #1
bogglefreak20
Dojo: Ki dojo
Location: Novo mesto & Ljubljana
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 101
Slovenia
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Thumbs down Haishi undo

I'm a beginner in Ki Aikido and am wondering if anyone knows/trains in a relaxation "technique" or better still practice with their partner called HAISHI UNDO. In case the terms differ, I will try to describe it: you grab your partner by the wrists, turn either way and go up on the same side with your (and his/her arms) so you both end up with backs together and arms above your heads, then you kneel a bit, just as much to get your "behind" under your partner's and lean forward, so he/she rests on your back, relaxing. We do that after every practice at our dojo and it's great to strech up!

Beatus Qui Venit In Nomine Domini!
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Old 01-23-2003, 02:03 PM   #2
Kat.C
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 212
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We do that sometimes though I won't do it anymore as I've been hurt that way twice, instead of that we can lay over our partner who is crouched on the floor on their hands and knees. I prefer this way,even without the pain factor I never enjoyed the other stretch.

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 01-23-2003, 02:10 PM   #3
diesel
Dojo: Tenshin
Location: Higashihiroshima
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 106
Japan
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Quote:
Kathryn Cole (Kat.C) wrote:
We do that sometimes though I won't do it anymore as I've been hurt that way twice, instead of that we can lay over our partner who is crouched on the floor on their hands and knees. I prefer this way,even without the pain factor I never enjoyed the other stretch.
From what I have heard alot of people are injured doing this stretch because they do it improperly. The proper way for this to be done is for the person who is bending over to get below the others butt, the butt should be in the small of your back. From there you should lean forward and find center, then stand up, squat, stand up, squat etc however many times dictated. It is important to keep your arms extended above your head and not out to the sides.. From there let the person back down and you then reverse and it's your turn.

That's the way it was explained to me and that is the way we perform it.

Cheers,

Eric
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Old 01-23-2003, 05:22 PM   #4
deepsoup
Dojo: Sheffield Shodokan Dojo
Location: Sheffield, UK
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Do it, love it!

(But being a bit on the heavy side, I choose my partner carefully.)

Sean

x
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Old 01-23-2003, 08:40 PM   #5
Edward
Location: Bangkok
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Thailand
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We do it at the end of almost every class and no one has ever been injured...
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Old 01-24-2003, 01:23 AM   #6
Fiona D
Location: Ottawa
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 50
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We do this exercise from time to time where I currently train, and did it a lot in my first (jiu jitsu) club. I totally agree with Eric's point that the person bending over has to get really low. Best way I've found is to keep the back completely upright, then bend the knees so that I slide down "uke's" back, down to the right level, and only then bend the back to take the weight. In this way, it's possible to lift someone heavier than yourself without too much difficulty. We are generally encouraged to do this exercise with someone close to our own weight, but sometimes that's just not possible, so getting the right position is very important.
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Old 01-24-2003, 05:24 AM   #7
Alphete
 
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Dojo: Shuren Dojo
Location: Buenos Aires
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We do it as part of any regular class after we practiced the last technique (genereally suwariwaza kokyuho) and we do it whith our current training partner (be him/her small/tall/heavy/thin...)

What we begginers are always told is the point that you should put (as Eric pointed out) your butt below his/her's kind of to lower your center.

And you should start straightening your knees once your partner is almost laying on your back, not before.

So far I never heard of anyone beeing injured by this practice (I hope I never hear)

I find it a very relaxing way of ending class.

It helps you to strech your muscles so you don't end up all rigid once you stop practicing.

Regards!

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Old 01-25-2003, 03:27 AM   #8
bogglefreak20
Dojo: Ki dojo
Location: Novo mesto & Ljubljana
Join Date: Oct 2002
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As Eric and others pointed out - the proper position is vital. It was explained to us "rookies" a hundred times, still...

Just yesterday I experienced a moderately unpleasant demonstration of Haishi undo.

(Un)fortunately I was the subject being lifted, but my partner didn't crowch enough, nor did he let go of my arms once I was on his back plus that he bent his back too much. The feelings of a ship being pushed by the wind right onto the pointy rocks that mean her doom are now totally familiar - OUCH!

What is fortunate, however, is the fact that I now absolutely know how NOT to perform Haishi undo.

In my opinion it's still a good way to relax if done as it should be.

Beatus Qui Venit In Nomine Domini!
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Old 01-25-2003, 05:35 AM   #9
Colin Clark
Dojo: Warwick University
Location: UK
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Miha, if you're the one being lifted, you should be the one holding on to the lifter's arms, not vice versa. At least, that's the way it's done at my dojo.
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Old 01-25-2003, 12:11 PM   #10
bogglefreak20
Dojo: Ki dojo
Location: Novo mesto & Ljubljana
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Slovenia
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Oh...now there's an idea! Never thought of it that way.

Thanks Colin - will try to get an opinion from my sensei on that one.

Friendly regards!

Beatus Qui Venit In Nomine Domini!
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Old 02-07-2003, 11:43 AM   #11
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
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I have not heard it called what you name it.

In Kisshomaru's book Aikido on page 39 it is shown as shumatsu dosa or in parenthesis (haishin undo). I learned it as shumatsu dosa. It is described as a back bending or stretching exercise.
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Old 02-07-2003, 01:52 PM   #12
Greg Jennings
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I really detest shumatsu dosa and won't have anything to do with it.

If someone wants to stretch after class, they are more than welcome to.

Best Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 02-07-2003, 06:44 PM   #13
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
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As a chiropractor, I find it a good way to loosen my back. The worst part is if you get someone who doesn't know how to do it and they drop you.
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Old 02-07-2003, 09:16 PM   #14
Greg Jennings
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Quote:
John Riggs wrote:
The worst part is if you get someone who doesn't know how to do it and they drop you.
Or they fall down, or snatch you up, or bounce you vigorously. Or if you are "lifting" and they jump up on you, or wiggle their bony rear end across your spine. Etc. Etc.

I'd just rather either be in charge of my own back stretch or get a professional to do it for me.

Greg Jennings
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