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Old 01-09-2003, 07:43 PM   #1
Amin Basri
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 16
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irimi movement

Hi,

I am new in aikido and i have problems doing irimi .When i did irimi,i try to do it fast and in a particular case,i lose my balance and fell.I am wondering how to do the irimi movements fast and how to maintain my balance.Also when i did irimi ,i did not know if i had to keep my feet on the mat and not losing contact with the ground when doing the movement or should i do a slight jump in order to do it(sorry,i do not know how to describe it in detail).Also if the irimi requires you to not lose contact with the ground,it will be pretty easy to do on the mat as it is a smooth surface,so i am wondering how to do irimi on the streets where the surface is usually rough and in addition to that you are wearing shoes.Thanks.


Regards,
AB
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Old 01-09-2003, 07:51 PM   #2
Nacho_mx
Dojo: Federación Mexicana de Aikido
Location: Mexico City
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Slide your feet close to the ground, leading with your toes, donīt put to much pressure on the ball of your feet, at first do it slowly, it should feel natural. Donīt raise your feet or jump around.

Last edited by Nacho_mx : 01-09-2003 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 01-09-2003, 11:31 PM   #3
MikeE
 
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Don't think about it. Everything you do in life or on the mat begins with irimi. It should be natural...like walking or breathing.

Focus on something else to let your body be natural in its entering movement. Like your wrist position and its conjunction to uke's hand.

Give it some time. Aikido isn't easy, if it was, everyone would have a black belt.

All the best!

Mike Ellefson
Midwest Center
For Movement &
Aikido Bukou
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Old 01-10-2003, 02:45 AM   #4
paul keessen
Dojo: Takemusu Aikido Hilversum
Location: Hilversum, Holland
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Think of your One point, Completly relax, keep weight underside, extend your mind!
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Old 01-10-2003, 05:00 AM   #5
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
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Hi Amin, as we do "bounce" in our style, keeping ball-of-the-foot contact with the mat isn't a real problem for us. However, with all movements at speed, the best advice is "don't look down" as your body has a tendency to follow where you look. Agree totally with the relax suggestions, try walking on the edge of a pavement at speed to get you in the habit of ignoring your feet.
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Old 01-10-2003, 07:08 AM   #6
Vincentharris
Dojo: Ronin Bushido Aikido
Location: Kentucky
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Hi,

If my memroy serves me correctly, isn't Irimi also known as the twenty year technique ?

As far as real world application is concerned I've been in enough fights in my life and seen enough overhanded techniques to know how effective they can be if they land and how "freaked out" the attacker would be if someone stepped into it. It'd totatlly throw him off mentally AND physically right before the ground flew up and hit him.

Good Luck

Optimists consider the glass half full, Pessimists consider the glass haf empty. I consider the glass is TOO BIG.
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Old 01-10-2003, 09:23 AM   #7
gasman
 
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from "Book of 5 rings" - Myamoto Musashi:

Use of the Feet in Other Schools

There are various methods of using the feet: floating foot, jumping foot, springing foot, treading foot, crow's foot, and such nible walking methods. From the point of view of my strategy, these are all unsatisfactory.

I dislike floating foot because the feet always tend to float during the fight. The Way must be trod firmly.

Neither do I like jumping foot, because it encourages the habit of jumping, and a jumpy spirit. However much you jump, there is no real justification for it, so jumping is bad.

Springing foot causes a springing spirit which is indecisive.

Treading foot is a "waiting" method, and I especially dislike it.

Apart from these, there are various fast walking methods, such as crow's foot, and so on.

Sometimes, however, you may encounter the enemy on marshland, swampy ground, river valleys, stony ground, or narrow roads, in which situations you cannot jump or move the feet quickly.

In my strategy, the footwork does not change. I always walk as I usually do in the street. You must never lose control of your feet. According to the enemy's rhythm, move fast or slowly, adjusting your body not too much and not too little.

Carrying the feet is important also in large-scale strategy. This is because, if you attack quickly and thoughtlessly without knowing the enemy's spirit, your rhythm will become deranged and you will not be able to win. Or, if you advance too slowly, you will not be able to take advantage of the enemy's disorder, the opportunity to win will escape, and you will not be able to finish the fight quickly. You must win by seizing upon the enemy's disorder and derangement, and by not according him even a little hope of recovery. Practise this well.


The rest can be found here

Now, the question arises: how DID musashi normally walk in the street...?

oh and i think it is the irimi NAGE which is the infamous 20 year technique.

Last edited by gasman : 01-10-2003 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 01-10-2003, 09:53 AM   #8
Mark Jakabcsin
Dojo: Charlotte Systema, Charlotte, NC
Location: Carolina
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Re: irimi movement

Quote:
Amin Basri wrote:
Hi,

I am wondering how to do the irimi movements fast and how to maintain my balance.

Regards,

AB
Amin,

If you are losing your balance chances are you are going TO fast. Answer, slow down. IMO it is more important to learn to move properly than it is to move fast. Speed only hides improper movement. The old saying 'Slow is smooth, smooth is fast' holds true in my experience. Focus on being smooth and fluid instead of being fast.

mark
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Old 01-10-2003, 11:52 PM   #9
PhilJ
 
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Quote:
Vince Harris (Vincentharris) wrote:
Hi,

If my memroy serves me correctly, isn't Irimi also known as the twenty year technique ?
I think ALL aikido techniques are 20-year. (I've heard that about just nearly every technique)

O'sensei wrote a doka about this, and I will very abrasively paraphrase it like "The attacker moves in strike, but I am already behind him". Forgive me and my feverish mind.

Sometimes it helps to "already be there". Establish your intent and envision yourself already inside the attack. Now, I don't mean "plan on it", since the attack could (and likely) change, so you need to be able to blend.

Move your intent (body/mind/soul) irimi and the rest will eventually come along for the ride.

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
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Old 01-11-2003, 10:15 AM   #10
ian
 
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I've noticed Ueshiba do a pronounced jump during irimi tenkan (with bokken) - this may have been part of the development into a more wave like motion which some people suggest he started to adopt. However he also said that kicking is not useful since it allows the opponent to throw (though I've seen him do a kick in suwari-waza; much like you'd see as an atemi in aiki-jitsu).

I think irimi is all about timing. Trying to get that overcommitment. Don't think of what you are doing, think of what you are doing relative to your partner. Although Ueshiba seemed to do many strikes to the face for irimi nage (and uke would go flying) this can often result in the uke just getting hit in the face. Ueshiba also talked about 1+9=10 and 5+5=10, thus an irimi technqiue can even result in you sliding backwards slightly, though it is entering in relation to uke.

Any help?

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 01-11-2003, 10:19 AM   #11
ian
 
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P.S. I've said this dozens of times, and I still haven't seen any proof that it is wrong. Ueshiba threw people in only one of two ways:

1. leading them (often by drawing them around in a circle as uke tries to follow nage as he moves off centre line).

2. turning them around their centre (usually through an atemi to the face, or drawing them down).

In all cases, he it appears he does not force the opponents centre to move - their centre either continues in the way it was going (with the body spinning around it) or it is moved under the ukes own volition (being led).

With either of these methods there is little need for extensive foot traction.

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 01-11-2003, 03:23 PM   #12
Russ UK
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My suggestion, as withh all waza that give you trouble, would be to start slow and then build up speed once you're a bit happier with the technique.
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Old 01-11-2003, 08:56 PM   #13
mattholmes
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I would suggest that as (I understand) you are a beginner, you do not try to do it fast. Try to learn it calmly and slowly first, while having fun. You will have plenty of time to worry about speeding it up later in preparation for your street battle.

Matt
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