Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-31-2002, 09:55 AM   #26
aikido_fudoshin
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 97
Offline
I dont believe we're bashing any particular style in this thread, but I would agree that this bashing does take place. I have noticed that many Yoshinkaners are quick to point out the flaws of Aikikai and vice versa aswell. I believe this is just human nature though. People want to believe what they are doing is the best and most effective way. Personally, I believe one should realize that there are many paths to a common goal and therefore one should choose the style that best suits their personality.

That being said, there are many bastardized forms of Aikido styles that have incorporated many changes either through misinterpretation or personal preference and this can shade the distinction between ones ideas of what a particular style is all about. Just as an example, we have had Aikikai practitioners come to our dojo and they were taught things that were not as effective or could result in personal injury through improper ukemi. This has probably happened in the opposite situation aswell. Is this due to a bastardized form of the style?; a poor instructor?; misinterpretation? I dont know because I have no experience with a pure form of that style. To really understand the difference between them we probably need to look at the way the various honbu dojos teach the art and then make a comparison from there.

Bruce Baker wrote:

"Funny, I don't hear Aikikai this, and Aikikai that..."

If you are referring to the forums on this website then this is probably because most of the Aikido practitioners that post here train in Aikikai. I have seen this simply by the way people use various Aikido terminology. Eg. in yoshinkan the one who performs the technique is refered to as sh'te, not nage. Same with first control and first principle. Also, Aikikai is the most popular style on the planet. I think many people assume you practice Aikikai when there are discussions in forums such as this. Because of this, there is no need to attempt a glorification of the style, which by the way is not something this thread was attempting to achieve in the first place.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2003, 06:53 PM   #27
Matthieu
Dojo: My own! soon!
Location: Montréal (Québec) Canada
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 28
Offline
Question

Quote:
Iriawan Kamal Thalib (Thalib) wrote:
I do like the Yoshinkan system on certain occasions, but at other occasions it might turn people away. Used to being a military nut (still a bit), I did like the Yoshinkan system.
This will probably sound very strange, but since I am from a chudokai dojo and having never been to another dojo, what exactly is this yoshinkai system?

BTW, the chudokai is a federation headed by a 6th dan yoshinkai sensei. So I do believe that we must have a yoshinkai system.

But back to my question, what is a yoshinkai system? And how different is it from an aikikai system?

Please do enlighten me!

OSU!!!

When you learn to love hell, you will be in heaven
-Golas
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2003, 06:30 AM   #28
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
But back to my question, what is a yoshinkai system? And how different is it from an aikikai system?

Please do enlighten me!

OSU!!![/quote]
Hi there,

The Yoshinkai system was developed by one of O'Sensei's students Gozo Shioda Sensei. Shioda Sensei was a pre-WWII student and was an uchi-desu for 8 years. The style focuses in 6 basic movements called kihon dosa. The kihon dosa are found in all of the Yoshinkai movements. By practicing this basics over and over, one will have a strong foundation in knowing exactly were to move and how to move your body in order to execute a technique. The style does a appear a bit harder than other styles of aikido. The Yoshinaki focuses on very exact and efficient techniques in order to control his attacker.

The differences in the Yoshinkai vs. Aikikai is primarily in the training method. This doesn't make one better than the other, it's just practiced differently. Both styles are very effective at what they do and each one has its pro's and con's.

I hope this answers your question. If you would like, check this site out for more info: http://www.seikeikan.com (a nice free plug for Steve Also, there is a book called Total Aikido: Masters Course by Gozo Shioda that may answer more of your questions. Hope this helps.

Osu!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2003, 02:08 PM   #29
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Offline
Well, if you watch how Gozo Shioda does Aikido, and you watch how his students teach and practice, there is a marked difference.

Most of the time, I call it "the school of hard knocks experience" verses the dojo trained students.

Having experienced the Military in both discipline and training, and exposure to a variety of training systems, I do see the value of having a step by step process, but just the same, allowing the student to experience the variables of a loose practice has great merit also.

I have yet to encounter a good teacher who does not put their own spin on the details needed to have good form and proper practice execution of techniques? Everyone has the same grasp of generalitys, and teaches details at different speeds to different students ... so what is the big deal?

Sitting here at my little desk, I feel like the old man who quietly goes about his bussines while the kids are tooting their horn yelling,"We're number ONE!!" Not for one minute, or just an hour, but for a week every time they go down the street.

When is it going to be over?

When is jerky behavior going to give way to getting on with training in a more quiet reserved manner?

Believe me, I don't begrudge a little tooting on the horn, but when is this party gonna break up so I can get some sleep?

Oh, Well...

This was but an exercise in civility.

It wasn't intended to separate Aikido practitioners, but awaken you to the fact that there is no one way or one style of Aikido that will teach you everything you need to know.

If you knew that already, then why do just the opposite of what you already knew?

Enough of this.

I see the movement of Gozo Shioda being quite different from his students who are more like the robotic forms found in many karate schools.

Eventually, there is fluidity, but when?

Bad student! You missed a movement! Do it again!

Variation? No Variation? Movement by the numbers, or no numbers needed because there is opportunity in whatever is in front of you?

From what I seen, read, practiced in Yoshinkan style, much is based upon the same style of learning found in many karate schools. The question is .... can you see the things that are adapted and changed, or used by other schools of martial arts?

If you can, we have no need to go further.

If you don't?

Well, stop tooting that horn and get busy.

It is a big world, with lots of things to learn.

One day, Bruce ain't gonna be here to goad you into looking beyond boot camp, or the reason you accept bootcamp mentality.

Your choice.

But when you get outside of bootcamp, there are other people out there in the big wide world.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2003, 02:18 PM   #30
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Offline
Sorry if I am a bit cranky.

But when you have been around for a while, you find there are many people who take bits and pieces of different martial arts to make a new martial art by a new name.

It is not the name that should be remembered, but the small contribution that style of practice makes, and retains for future practitioners.

There are many pieces to understanding how an why martial arts works, and they are scattered about in many different styles, not in any one style.

Give respect to your style and teacher, but don't toot your horn so long I want to break your fingers.

Give the poor old man a break.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2003, 03:04 PM   #31
aikido_fudoshin
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 97
Offline
Bruce Baker wrote:
Quote:
I see the movement of Gozo Shioda being quite different from his students who are more like the robotic forms found in many karate schools
This statement alone has destroyed the validity of your whole argument.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2003, 06:03 PM   #32
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 6,000
Offline
Bruce -- I, for one, have not seen anyone "tooting their horns" regarding Yoshinkan aikido in this thread. What I have seen, though, are people who are experienced in Shioda sensei's approach to aikido discussing their approach both amongst themselves and with people from other approaches.

This website and Forum was created for such a purpose -- to allow people with differing backgrounds to meet and share their experiences and thoughts.

I would appreciate it if you could stop haranguing those who are providing meaningful input into the discussion. I find your remarks disrespectful of those who are sharing their thoughts and to those who are currently training in Shioda sensei's approach. If you must continue in this vein, I will have to ask you to find a different forum in which to present your thoughts.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2003, 06:11 PM   #33
Chocolateuke
Dojo: Muhu Dojo
Location: Middle of nowhere in California 14 miles from Buellton
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 238
Offline
:P

er bruce can I ask you a question? Have you ever been to a yoshinkai class? I mean yes there is disiplin and yes machine like learning but there is flexiblity to. My sensei said " you must make aikido your own, bring life into your movements." yes you learn the basics in a step by step way but eventually you start to see patterns and ideas and then you can explore what kame and the basic movements do, then you explore the throws.

Hey steve! we found some dojo space starting a new dojo soon :P

Dallas Adolphsen
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2003, 08:07 PM   #34
Kat.C
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 212
Offline
Bruce if it bothers you to read about Yoshinkan aikido then why keep reading a thread entitled Yoshinkan?

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2003, 08:10 PM   #35
Steven
 
Steven's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 636
United_States
Offline
Re: :P

Quote:
Dallas Adolphsen (Chocolateuke) wrote:
er bruce can I ask you a question? Have you ever been to a yoshinkai class? I mean yes there is disiplin and yes machine like learning but there is flexiblity to. My sensei said " you must make aikido your own, bring life into your movements." yes you learn the basics in a step by step way but eventually you start to see patterns and ideas and then you can explore what kame and the basic movements do, then you explore the throws.

Hey steve! we found some dojo space starting a new dojo soon :P
Hey Dallas,

Great to hear from you and on the news of finding a new space. Since you folks are now back under the Yoshinkan mainstream, I would like to add you to my dojo listing. Please send my regards to all at the Muhu dojo.

... Steven ...
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2003, 09:04 PM   #36
Chocolateuke
Dojo: Muhu Dojo
Location: Middle of nowhere in California 14 miles from Buellton
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 238
Offline
thanks steven it may take some time before I can get an officail thing going we have some construction going at the site, but yeah Ill keep you posted.

Dallas Adolphsen
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2003, 10:53 PM   #37
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
Japan
Offline
As one of my teachers puts it - when Yoshinkan is good it's very very good. I've been exposed twice and both times I was quite happy with the level of the practitioners and the instructor.

First time was with Mike (Spike) Kimeda at the First (and only) Japan Aikido-L seminar. Then second was the dojo of Mike's dad and a class by Philip Atkin. There was nothing robotic about these two instructors or any of their students. The absolute beginners were like beginners everywhere. In the latter case there was kihon followed by a pretty normal practice seen in any Aikido dojo worth its salt. My non-Yoshinkan sources tell me that's pretty much par for the course.

I know if I was in the Toronto area I would be training Yoshinkan (when I wasn't teaching my style of course).

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2003, 11:05 AM   #38
Matthieu
Dojo: My own! soon!
Location: Montréal (Québec) Canada
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 28
Offline
Quote:
Eric Joyce wrote:
The Yoshinkai system was developed by one of O'Sensei's students Gozo Shioda Sensei. Shioda Sensei was a pre-WWII student and was an uchi-desu for 8 years. The style focuses in 6 basic movements called kihon dosa. The kihon dosa are found in all of the Yoshinkai movements. By practicing this basics over and over, one will have a strong foundation in knowing exactly were to move and how to move your body in order to execute a technique. The style does a appear a bit harder than other styles of aikido. The Yoshinaki focuses on very exact and efficient techniques in order to control his attacker.

The differences in the Yoshinkai vs. Aikikai is primarily in the training method. This doesn't make one better than the other, it's just practiced differently. Both styles are very effective at what they do and each one has its pro's and con's.
First of all thank you for having taking time to answer my question.

But truthfully, your answer did bother me a little. Let me explain why.

The first part of your answer was exactly what I have been training in for the last seven years. So all you said is very natural for me, to the point of beeing almost like breathing! It's the second part where you say that other style train differently that troubles me.

Of course I know that there are significant difference in the style of movements that are specific to each style. What puzzle me is how other style train. I know how we train in yoshinkai aikido (spiritually and all) but how does other style train was what I really wanted to know.

In a way, I am asking how others are training. With all the emphasis on kamae, Chushin-Ryoku (the power of the center line), shuchu-ryoku (focused power), kokyu-ryoku (breath power) and kihon dosa I can no longer understand techniques without them. It has become very natural after all the training that I was fortunate to have.

Please do tell me how aikidokas from other style approach a new technique.

Hopefully, this message will not be interpreted by aikidokas from other style has a tooting of my horn but simply a cry for enlightenment.

Osu!

When you learn to love hell, you will be in heaven
-Golas
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2003, 12:26 PM   #39
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
Hi Matthieu,

I see what your saying. Well, from my experience in the Aikikai and Yoshinkai, what I meant by differences was more so regarding the emphasis on posture, kamae and the kihon dosa (basic movements). The Aikikai school that I attended in Chicago under Akira Tohei, did practice some basic body movements, but it wasn't stressed as much as it is in the Yoshinkai school I attend. I believe the thought process at that particular school was that over time, you learn thru repetition how to move your body by doing techniques (at least that's what was told to me by senior students).

Unlike your situation, I have found the opposite regarding the understanding of techniques. From my personal experience, I have found that by learning the Yoshinkai method, I am now able and have a better understanding on how techniques are executed on the Aikikai side. Of course that's just me. Both methods are equally good. It's amazing. There are so many different ways to do techniques. Quite incredible actually.

And for some of our readers out there, this is not a "horn toot". Just giving info.

Eric Joyce
Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2003, 04:05 PM   #40
Thalib
 
Thalib's Avatar
Dojo: 合気研究会
Location: Jakarta Selatan
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 504
Indonesia
Offline
I'm under the Aikikai system. From what I see, there is no standardization in Aikikai. This is one of Aikikai's weakness but it's also Aikikai's strength.

Each year a shihan from honbu comes here and gives a little seminar. With every different shihan there's a different in form. The difference is only in form though. That's why I guess I haven't found any books on forms from Aikikai.

Each individual is allowed to develop their own form and teach them. Of course there are basic techniques. There are teachers that teaches with systems that are similar to Yoshinkai and there are teachers that teaches with systems similar with Ki-no-Kenkyukai.

So many varieties in Aikikai. That's why I'm still in Aikikai. Now, the problem is how to find the right teacher for oneself.

When I started Aikido, I was actually one of the first students that my Sensei taught after becoming a shodan. Our bunch was first drilled in Yoshinkai style. My Sensei studied a few months with the Yoshinkai. Yoshinkai system is great with beginners.

As we progress, our Sensei uses less and less of the Yoshinkai system and develops his own way of teaching which actually fits me and my fellow students. That's why I hadn't left Aikido and continued on.

From his experience he shared with us that each shihan that comes for the yudansha grading wants to see certain form in the techniques. He usually finds out who's coming for the examination and he tries to find out the shihan's style. This one of the problem of not having a standard.

My sensei do have quite a grasp of basic Aikikai. But when he showed the basic to us, I still see many variations of that basic. It is quite confusing but at the same time it's quite fun.

Now, I'm grading for shodan next month and I asked around about the shihan that is coming and nobody actually have heard of him. Nobody actually know his style. Perhaps some of you guys know him, Kuribayashi Takanori - Shihan 6th Dan.And his uchi-deshi is Suzuki Kojiro, 3rd Dan.

Our Sensei has been brushing up on our basics for this exam. I don't believe Aikikai is picky on forms. I believe Aikikai concentrates around principles. Yes, the form may vary, but as long as the principle is correct I believe there will be no problem. The principle is Aiki.

Just one more note:

The people that brought Aikido to Indonesia studied under Osensei. To them there are no styles, every true Aikido is Osensei's Aikido. In their eyes there are no Aikikai, Yoshinkai, Ki-no-Kenkyukai, etc., there is only one Aikido that is Osensei's Aikido. I really appreciate and have respect for this attitude from them. Because of them we are allowed to expand our knowledge.

With that, I welcome every style of Aikido that has lineage to Osensei. I do not care what system you are under, it is still Aikido.

When I have to die by the sword, I will do so with honor.
--------
http://funkybuddha.multiply.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2003, 05:46 PM   #41
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Offline
Maybe I don't get it,but...

Then again ...

What arguement?

I fail to understand the logic of saying you are not tooting your horn when every reference is to one system, on style, one set of teachers who teach that system, and there are no across the board comparisons that either descibe the subtle differences, or attempt to discuss the subtle differences? Not my fault I have training videos that resemble robots? I didn't make the material?

Never mind....

I neither defend my comments nor attack yours, I merely give you my opinion on the basis of my experience with people I have met, trained with, experiences of both scholarly studys, interlaced with doses of material distributed by Yoshinkan.

If you were to absorb the entire text of what I have written, then the many mentionings of beginners verses those with much more experience nearly being twins in the performance of their Aikido in other styles would not have escaped your notice.

Point being ....

we spend too much time on the little annoyances, and we, both you and I, should try to fix that bad habit?

Read the entire text, take it with a grain of salt, and put practice, and teaching methods in perspective to what they are .... practice.

I take the warnings of my being out of line as effectly of coming closer to the truth of our egos speaking rather than considering that eventually all methods of training will change ... as someone always comes along with a better way to teach Aikido?

Taking nothing away from Gozo Shioda as a great teacher, but the lessons of history, not the results of the shouting supportors of "We're number, one." are the proof in the pudding.

Humanity only follows those of recent memory, not those who have been eclipsed by newer heroes. I see this as not an arguement, but the opportunity to learn a lesson of humbleness before the fall, not after the fall. I kind of wished I stayed back in the shadows, invisible, but I opened my big mouth, so I take my lumps.

Years ago, we made up a mythical style of martial arts that would surpass all other martial arts,and for those who did not know it was mythical, we would recommend they go do this art if they did not find what they wanted in training in out present art.

It did two things.

One, it separated the talkers from the people who wanted to train, and two, it taught most students not to toot their horn because names are transitory, and training goes on forever, both literally, and in truth, while names do not.

Everyone steals what they need to learn to protect themselves. When it is yours, you can call it what you like.

Fact is, it is never the name of something that makes it what it is, but the practice and dedication of its students who must adapt and change as the practice changes.

Look back upon this time in your Yoshinkan training with rose colored glasses, for tomorrow, it might be called something else, even though the practice is still the same.

This may be uncalled for, but then if this is not the case, we might as well call this forum the Yoshinkai Aikiweb, or the Aikikai Aikiweb, or what ever name is dominant during the current age of practice?

Does that clear it up any?

I know the Aikikai guys don't bring it up, but then I consider most of you my wayward friends, a place where we could speak candidly.

Maybe I was wrong about that.

Some of you see more darkness than I do, and that seems to be the heart of discontent here?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2003, 09:57 PM   #42
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 6,000
Offline
Re: Maybe I don't get it,but...

Quote:
Bruce Baker wrote:
Taking nothing away from Gozo Shioda as a great teacher, but the lessons of history, not the results of the shouting supportors of "We're number, one." are the proof in the pudding.
Once again, I see absolutely no one in this thread referring to Yoshinkan as "number one." It seems you are the only person so far who seems to think so.
Quote:
This may be uncalled for, but then if this is not the case, we might as well call this forum the Yoshinkai Aikiweb, or the Aikikai Aikiweb, or what ever name is dominant during the current age of practice?
The site is not "style" specific and, frankly, I resent your insinuations at such. You obviously do not understand the lengths I have personally taken to try to keep this site about aikido and not about any single approach. Frankly, I feel insulted by your statement.

This thread, however, is ostentatiously named "Yoshinkan." If you can't accept the fact the some folks may want to speak about a single topic (eg the approach to aikido that Shioda sensei left us) rather than force the subject to branch out and include everyone under the sun, I will once again ask you to find a different forum to express your views.

That's the last word I'm going to post on this particular subject. I hope people will continue discussing the topic at hand in a contructive manner rather than taking unnecessarily anti-social measures to try to make an off-topic "point." As I've said before, I've found this thread very productive and educational myself.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2003, 11:02 PM   #43
Chris Li
 
Chris Li's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Sangenkai
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,304
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Jonathan Wong (JW) wrote:
That sounds like Iwama-style, which I have had very limited experience in (but none at all in Yoshinkan).

So what are some major differences between Iwama and Yoshinkan?

--JW
The differences are small enought that Gozo Shioda once asked M. Saito to be his successor at the Yoshinkan (Saito turned him down because of his responsibilities at Iwama).

It's interesting to note that the Yoshinkan and the Aikikai never formally seperated - just developed along different organizational lines. IIRC, K. Ueshiba was on the Yoshinkan board of directors (and vice-versa), but I don't know how the situation stands today.

"Aikikai" is so broad that it's hard to make a definitive statement, but I would say that the differences are primarily pedagogical. If Yoshinkan is "phonics", then "standard" Aikikai might be seen as the "whole language" approach. What works best depends, IMO, upon the people involved.

Best,

Chris

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2003, 09:24 AM   #44
Steven
 
Steven's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 636
United_States
Offline
Dear Mr. Brookmole,

I hope all is well. Have we been able to answer your question and assist you in understanding how and why we do things in the Yoshinkan?

If not, please feel free to write to me privately is you wish at aysdojo@seikeikan.com or post here.

Kinds regards ...
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2003, 02:56 PM   #45
aikido_fudoshin
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 97
Offline
Do people really think Inoue sensei, Chida sensei, etc., look like robots?

Anyways, one point about Yoshinkan that I think has been left out is why there is strict form. The kihon dosa are ment to show people how to move their bodies in the most efficient manner. This very much has to do with the laws of physics. The kihon dosa, along with kame show us where we are most powerful, where we have the most stability, and how we can use this to move our ukes effortlessly and most efficiently. It helps us realize where we are most powerful, where this comes from (i.e. your center), and how we can utilize or harness this power.

Anyone can mimic the kihon dosa but there is a much different feeling to it when done correctly. This cant be taught, its very much subjective. Its extremely difficult to get this feeling and even harder to consistently move in this way. This is why we repeat the kihon dosa over and over again with and without a partner.

Yoshinakn takes body diferences into account. The kihon dosa will vary from person to person, but this difference is not large by any means.

Anyone who believes Yoshinkan is not about blending, feeling, and harmony is dead wrong. Yes, the training method is done step by step, and may look ridgid, but its done to coincide with the kihon dosa and help people understand where they have to be to take uke off balance. These movements should be effortless when we have learned how to move ourselves efficiently and at the same time feel out our opponent. Yoshinkan does not only practice in this step by step method, there is Jiyu waza and various blending techniques, but these are done in co-ordenance with the kihon dosa. The kihon dosa should be very smooth and flowing.

I feel all styles of Aikido still follow the same principles, and If observed with an open mind I feel one should notice they are not all that much different. Really, the name says it all.

Im not "tootin my horn" about how Yoshinkan is better, im merely stating the way Ive learned or interpreted the philosophy behind it. If anyone would like to make any corrections or additions to this please feel free to comment. I feel the dialectical or discursive process is the best way to learn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2003, 04:01 PM   #46
MAH
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3
Offline
Hey Bruce...

Enough with the stupid "tooting of the horn" comment. IT gets a little old when you repeat that over and over again and it starts to sound antagonistic.

Thanks,

MAH
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2003, 04:29 PM   #47
Mark B
Location: California
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5
Offline
Mr Miranda

Yes, this has been a great exhange. Of course, with almost every post comes more questions, but I have decided to join a Yoshinkan dojo and work those questions out on the mat. I am sorry if my lack of replies or input seemed to show a lack of interest. I was just taking the shut up and listen approach.

Thanks to everyone that has contributed and please continue.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2003, 08:41 PM   #48
Steven
 
Steven's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Yoshinkan Sacramento - Seikeikan Dojo
Location: Orangevale, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 636
United_States
Offline
Hi Mark,

Welcome to the family. May I ask which dojo you are attending? Any of the ones in CA are great.

No problem with the silence my friend. I certainly understand the approach. Good luck in your training and tell your instructor I said hello.

... Cheers ...
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2003, 05:04 PM   #49
Mark B
Location: California
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 5
Offline
Mr Miranda,

The name of the dojo is Shobukan. My first class will be this Saturday morning. I am looking forward to it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2003, 07:54 AM   #50
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
Well said Bryant.
Quote:
Bryan Siekierko (aikido_fudoshin) wrote:
Do people really think Inoue sensei, Chida sensei, etc., look like robots?

Anyways, one point about Yoshinkan that I think has been left out is why there is strict form. The kihon dosa are ment to show people how to move their bodies in the most efficient manner. This very much has to do with the laws of physics. The kihon dosa, along with kame show us where we are most powerful, where we have the most stability, and how we can use this to move our ukes effortlessly and most efficiently. It helps us realize where we are most powerful, where this comes from (i.e. your center), and how we can utilize or harness this power.

Anyone can mimic the kihon dosa but there is a much different feeling to it when done correctly. This cant be taught, its very much subjective. Its extremely difficult to get this feeling and even harder to consistently move in this way. This is why we repeat the kihon dosa over and over again with and without a partner.

Yoshinakn takes body diferences into account. The kihon dosa will vary from person to person, but this difference is not large by any means.

Anyone who believes Yoshinkan is not about blending, feeling, and harmony is dead wrong. Yes, the training method is done step by step, and may look ridgid, but its done to coincide with the kihon dosa and help people understand where they have to be to take uke off balance. These movements should be effortless when we have learned how to move ourselves efficiently and at the same time feel out our opponent. Yoshinkan does not only practice in this step by step method, there is Jiyu waza and various blending techniques, but these are done in co-ordenance with the kihon dosa. The kihon dosa should be very smooth and flowing.

I feel all styles of Aikido still follow the same principles, and If observed with an open mind I feel one should notice they are not all that much different. Really, the name says it all.

Im not "tootin my horn" about how Yoshinkan is better, im merely stating the way Ive learned or interpreted the philosophy behind it. If anyone would like to make any corrections or additions to this please feel free to comment. I feel the dialectical or discursive process is the best way to learn.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yoshinkan folks pls come in KamiKaze_Evolution Spiritual 34 03-12-2007 09:36 PM
Yoshinkan and knees Peter Savill General 7 01-25-2007 10:51 PM
Yoshinkan video and book for sale Loquitur Marketplace 1 06-29-2006 01:00 PM
Yoshinkan kensparrow General 5 07-01-2003 02:11 PM
Yoshinkan basics within the ASU Steven Training 26 07-11-2002 10:41 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:24 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate