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Old 12-22-2002, 09:12 AM   #1
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
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practice, doing it wrong to get it right.

Observation:

How many of you release your holds, or give a more gentle practice, that is not technically correct, to get a newcomer or partner to "go with the flow" without causing injury?

I know there are a few of us gorrilla's out there who try to play nice with other Aikidoka and we have mentioned this in a variety of forum threads. We tend to do practice wrong to allow our partner to get the feel of our size or weight, and in doing this we slow down, allow more slack than need be to accomandate either the beginner, or our partner to get the feeling of movement so they can rise to the more technically efficient level?

We were doing Kaitenage the other day, and I found myself in one of those take out all the slack, but you have to give uke more room to learn situations.

In effect, it was doing practice the wrong way to allow learning to happen and not the old "being beaten about like a red headed step child" syndrome.

I just thought my observation of the varying degree's of loosening, or going with the movements of the everpresent newcomers was worth a thought or two in its value to both the more experience practitioner, and the new comer who is trying to get into the rythm of Aikido.

Maybe because by the end of class the new guy was resigned to a more moderate resistence that went with the practice when I actually used no strength. He went three feet fartherthan the previous round as I felt he was going too far with the my no strength throw and had to shorten his throw by restraining myself in the middle of my effort?

This ever happen to you?
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Old 12-22-2002, 10:58 AM   #2
erikmenzel
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Dojo: Aikidojo Leiderdorp
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Re: practice, doing it wrong to get it right.

Quote:
Bruce Baker wrote:
This ever happen to you?
No. When ever you are doing something within the dojo someone else can always take what you are doing as an example, especialy someone with less experience. The one thing you definitly dont want to do is set a wrong example. This means you have to train as correctly and perfectly as possible, hence doing it wrong, even to help somebody, is not an option anyway.

Another problem is often what people consider wrong anyway. A lot of ideas of what is right exist, probably most of them are wrong.

I personaly think that the way a student can train with beginners is one of the important ways to actualy see the level of skill and understanding of this student. Less experience shows in weird solutions and adaptations.

Erik Jurrien Menzel
kokoro o makuru taisanmen ni hirake
Personal:www.kuipers-menzel.com
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Old 12-22-2002, 12:13 PM   #3
SeiserL
 
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Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
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IMHO, learning to be a good training partner/Uke is very important and very difficult. To give just enough so they can practice, but not too much so they can't. Giving up on focusing on our training to help focus on thiers.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 12-30-2002, 01:22 PM   #4
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
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Shouldn't technically correct practice help us to be more gentle in these situations?

Why sacrafice technique for safety? Why not perform safe, correct technique?

"The martial arts progress from the complex to the simple."
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Old 12-30-2002, 04:13 PM   #5
PhilJ
 
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Lynn and Lyle have agreeable points. Dumbing down technique so someone can "do it" circumvents the purpose of learning effective technique.

More importantly, it's the technique that leads to aikido as it represents the planet, universe, etc. My hope is students find effective and real technique (non-physical) outside the dojo, not just inside.

Being a good uke is equally as important as being a good nage. This is a criteria many instructors includes on tests. If uke gives nage dishonest energy for a technique, nage ends up doing henka waza, not the prescribed art.

If a partner is having a hard time with a technique, slowing it down sometimes helps, trying different perspectives, etc. But shouldn't it always be earnest, realistic, and sincere?

*Phil

Last edited by PhilJ : 12-30-2002 at 04:16 PM.

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
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