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Old 12-22-2006, 12:30 PM   #76
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
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Re: Fighting

Luc Wrote:

Quote:
still, i have never seen any art come close to getting bashed as much as Aikido does. i think it stems from the fact that it is very hard to defend yourself without using strikes, and without using muscle. it is a long term commitment indeed. i'm up for it, but the ones that aren't end up bashing the art.
Aikido does not have strikes??? The whole basis of the dynamic is the intent and ability to use atemi. The skill come in play of being able to control the use or non-use of atemi in theory. The best aikidoka I know have a very, very strong and foreboding posture.

I also think many bash the art because the newbs out there go out and try to do things that they simply do not understand. Kinda like spending an hour on a crash course on Quantum physics and then trying to apply what you learned to your buddies...probably won't be successful at winning friends and influencing people.

I think a big part of the issue is that aikido is a training methodology and not necessarily designed to be applied literally.
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:15 PM   #77
Luc X Saroufim
 
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Jorge Garcia wrote:
Gladly! O' Sensei, myself and all who believe what he taught will leave immediately. What are you going to call your new art?

Jorge
Compete-o

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
Aikido does not have strikes??? The whole basis of the dynamic is the intent and ability to use atemi. The skill come in play of being able to control the use or non-use of atemi in theory. The best aikidoka I know have a very, very strong and foreboding posture.
i guess this proves that i'm still trying to apply the techniques literally. that is, i've never been told to punch or kick someone in order to defend myself, therefore i assume there are no strikes.

Last edited by Luc X Saroufim : 12-22-2006 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:19 PM   #78
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Luc Saroufim wrote:
Compete-o



i guess this proves that i'm still trying to apply the techniques literally. that is, i've never been told to punch or kick someone in order to defend myself, therefore i assume there are no strikes.

It sounds very appropriate! Please do!

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:32 PM   #79
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
I think a big part of the issue is that aikido is a training methodology and not necessarily designed to be applied literally.
Kevin. Now I think you hit the nail right on the head! Aikido is a training methodology using certain principles that train the body in a certain way. My teacher is a principle based teacher and all his Aikido is that way. He has developed special training exercises with weapons and without that mimic the techniques but demonstrate the principle. When I first saw him do randori in 1998, I was really puzzled because he didn't do any techniques or anything that resembled Aikido. He entered and would throw five punches, two kicks and move on. He would show a technique and at the final demo of the technique, he would just do an entry and strike the side or the head and say, "That's the same thing". Last year, he did a demo, that we taped and if you look at it and aren't told the art, I don't think it could be identified necessarily as Aikido., I asked him why he didn't do techniques in the demo. He responded, "Because Aikido has no form". I asked, then what is the waza we practice in class? He said, "That's for you to figure out!"
best,
Jorge

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:50 PM   #80
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Fighting

Yes, I agree, I think the strength of aikido is that the methodology is designed to teach principles. Really kinda like martial theory if you may.

Because of this, it leaves much open to interpretation and exploration of the principles.

I think it will take a lifetime of study to explore the principles.

Sort of like going to grad school and getting a degree in economics and then applying what you learned literally and then wondering why your business is in the red when by all accounts based on theory you should be making money!
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:59 PM   #81
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
Yes, I agree, I think the strength of aikido is that the methodology is designed to teach principles. Really kinda like martial theory if you may.

Because of this, it leaves much open to interpretation and exploration of the principles.

I think it will take a lifetime of study to explore the principles.

Sort of like going to grad school and getting a degree in economics and then applying what you learned literally and then wondering why your business is in the red when by all accounts based on theory you should be making money!
In that respect, I understand how the principles can be transposed into other martial arts and even BJJ! I have no problem with that.The philosophy of the art though is what makes it Aikido to me but the physical principles can be found in other arts although maybe not 100 percent the same way used as in Aikido.

Jorge

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 12-22-2006, 02:05 PM   #82
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Fighting

Jorge wrote:

Quote:
In that respect, I understand how the principles can be transposed into other martial arts and even BJJ! I have no problem with that.The philosophy of the art though is what makes it Aikido to me but the physical principles can be found in other arts although maybe not 100 percent the same way used as in Aikido.
I agree.

The key I think is much along the lines of what Don says, just don't be deluded in to thinking you know something that you don't. It is quite possible to be very skilled and proficient in aikido, perform, and teach it competently, understand the principles, philosophy, and still not be able to apply it in reality (whatever that may be).

I draw a parallel to the MBA professor that can lecture all day long about economic theory and can outline ad nausem how to make a million dollars, yet ask him to actually go do it, and he simply cannot do it for real.

No problem with it, as long as we don't delude ourselves in thinking that we are something that we are not!

The world needs good teachers.
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Old 12-22-2006, 07:31 PM   #83
Gernot Hassenpflug
Dojo: Aunkai, Tokyo
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Re: Fighting

Kevin, that's eloquently put. Everytime I think of how poorly I perform (in a situation where I expected better) I remember that it works both way. There are those practitioners that are brilliant and yet make poor teachers (and that's just dividing into two segments). We can always find something that we are good at and work at it, accepting that we are not good at a host of other things while doing our best to improve those areas.
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