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Old 05-25-2005, 12:35 PM   #26
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote:
So why do many aikido people instantly concede that they are not capable of defending themselves against "serious martial artists" or "real fighting situations"?

It took Damien 4 paragraphs to concede this point. How long does it take you?
We will never surrender!

Nevaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

<<<<<Draws Katana and Leaps into the melee of Aiki-fruities>>>>>


LC
Shodothugz4eva

Last edited by L. Camejo : 05-25-2005 at 12:38 PM.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:12 AM   #27
Randathamane
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
....that they are not capable of defending themselves against "serious martial artists" or "real fighting situations"?
Defending yourself is not all that hard- all you need to know is what attack is coming and what you are going to do about it...

"serious martial artists" do exactly the same- they cannot throw with no contact, nor can the punch at thin air. if they attack, move out the way or enter in (or parry reposte as the case may be). i would be confident against another "serious martial artist" that i could take them down given time.... Ultimately they are going to have to grab me to throw me (BEEEEEP- Wrong answer!!!!) or attempt to strike me......

Kicks on the other hand will have most aikidoka stumped.....



Good against remotes are one thing- good against the living, thats somthing else....
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Old 05-26-2005, 10:34 AM   #28
happysod
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
<<<<<Draws Katana and Leaps into the melee of Aiki-fruities>>>>>
just noticed this one, aikiweb needs some asbos methinks (three or four names spring to mind). Now put the toy down or mummy'll get cross...

Quote:
Frankly I think it is more of a rip off if all you get out of it is some rudimentary fighting skills
worth repeating (for example, there's the beer afterwards, stimulating conversation about injuries and wonderful sexy hakama...)
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Old 05-27-2005, 10:11 AM   #29
jonreading
 
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Re: Fighting

I don't think my concern lies with individuals that choose to use aikido for other purposes. I think my concerns lies with individuals that choose to use aikido for other purposes, but do not clearly acknowledge they made a choice.

Kevin brought up a great point that he made a decision to practice aikido for other reasons. I think that many newer students may not realize that aikido has "other reasons" to train. I tread very carefully to present aikido in many different ways; I try to leave the decision up to the student to choose why they want to train.

This is maybe why I get worked up when I hear comments that criticize a reason to practice aikido. I firmly belive there is an order to learning aikido that decreases confusion, but I also support exposing students to all types of aikido. This is a silly thing to say, but I notice more dojo are creating an atmosphere of right/wrong, and they are exposing students to less aikido outside of the dojo.
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Old 05-28-2005, 02:07 PM   #30
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Fighting

Very good points Jon. I never really thought about the concept of "reducing confusion", but your right, the way we traditionally study does eliminate the "static".

I think when you go down that avenue of saying "right/wrong" you have failed and are in the process of building the confusion that you are attempting to eliminate.

One thing I have always liked about aikido, at least in most ASU places I have been and studied is that the techniques/practice is designed to demonstrate principles, but most instructors will also show you the application or bunkai of all the options that can go with it.
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:16 PM   #31
michael_rath
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Ai symbol Re: Fighting

Aikido was the first martial art I ever trained. Yes, I said first. I have since that time and during that time explored adding to my aikido background with a few forms of karate (shito-ryu, shotokan, and kenpo), as well as JFJKD, and krav maga. There are others, but it's was in the search of looking for a more effective way to fight. If you're concerned about if aikido can deliver in an attack against other martial artists or just a brutal attack by any one with training or none my answer is cross train.
Even before I began my study of the other martial arts I used aikido just fine in my confrontation. I was able to use aikido many times, yes even against trained opponents. I wanted more, however, that was why I began to cross train. I didn't have spiritual pursuits and if you don't want them you won't get them.

I've grown up since then and I've had some hard lessons to learn that martial arts is more then just learning to kick the crap out of some one. Aikido brought me back to that point of yes we can use our fighting skills to beat and break others, but it really is a pursuit of self-discipline and self-control. Yes, churches and religions can help, but again only if you want it to. Martial arts just like spiritual walk is a commitment that you must take with regards of the things you may do to help or even harm someone. Don't take advantage of just your fighting, but the whole art or (way). Or you'll eventually be disappointed and leave looking for the next person to teach you how to kick butt. There's some really good "reality" systems if that's all you want.

Michael
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:08 AM   #32
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Fighting

wow, old thread. It is interesting to see what was written a year ago, my own comments especially. It is always interesting to me to see how time, new ideas, perceptions, and pardigms affect things!

Anyway, even reality based systems miss the make and leave much to be desired. We simply cannot always choose the time, place, conditions of the fight we may be involved in. We may succeed physically in a fight, but commit somethings we regret, we may fail physically in a fight, but with the right frame of mind, and having your life and self in order may result in a victory, if not public, then internal (privately).

Arts such as aikido are not so much about the physical aspects, but the training the whole of the individual to make you prepared to engage in a fight mentally, physically, and spritually...it is about the whole, no about the pittance of skills you learn.

My profession is training soldiers to be prepared to fight. We spend a great deal of time, money and effort on training. I have computers, the latest equipment, and training aids to accomplish this, we have chaplains, doctors, and family support groups, and all kinds of other things to provide for a fit, trained and stable warrior.

Much goes into training someone to be prepared to fight!
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Old 12-17-2006, 07:11 AM   #33
SeiserL
 
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
My profession is training soldiers to be prepared to fight. We spend a great deal of time, money and effort on training. I have computers, the latest equipment, and training aids to accomplish this, we have chaplains, doctors, and family support groups, and all kinds of other things to provide for a fit, trained and stable warrior.
My deepest respect, compliments, and appreciation for what you do to help preparing people for watching over us for and for the collateral damage it does to the people that love and support them. (From someone who spent his time on guard.)

Very few people can comprehend what goes into training a warrior/soldier, the least of which IMHO is physical.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 12-17-2006, 07:43 AM   #34
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Fighting

Thanks Lynn, it ain't a sacrifice, it is what I chose to do, and get paid very well to do it.

As far as collateral damage and all that goes...here is an interesting perspective....

A few years back, I realized that I was not really into the whole killing thing and struggled for a long time about if I had a philosophical, spiritual, and ethical conflict.

I read, talked to a number of people, and thought alot about it.

A couple of books by the Dali Lama, etc really where a big help in helping me reconcile things.

We don't always get to choose the time and place and things we do. We do, however, have a choice over how we respond and react to things.

I hope that by being a good leader, setting a good example, and providing the best training I can to soldiers that when they are faced with the tough choices that they make, that they are able to make the right ones.

Too me, this is the real issue in why we study martial arts to broaden our understanding and ability to influence the thing that comes between stimulus and response....choice.


thanks again for the nice comments.
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Old 12-17-2006, 06:43 PM   #35
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote:
My deepest respect, compliments, and appreciation for what you do to help preparing people for watching over us for and for the collateral damage it does to the people that love and support them. (From someone who spent his time on guard.)

Very few people can comprehend what goes into training a warrior/soldier, the least of which IMHO is physical.
Brought to mind a favorite Churchill quote:

"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

- Winston Churchill

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 12-17-2006, 09:15 PM   #36
DonMagee
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Re: Fighting

I always hear there is no competition in aikido. But I think there is. First there are styles that have competitions. But that is not my point. Life is a competition. Everything you do is a competition. Why do you want to be a better person? Is striving to be a better person not competition? Why do we have a desire to mate and have children? Is this not a competition to insure our genes live on? Life is competition, every single act, every thing we do is to insure our survival, a competition against everything else that is not us.

Embrace competition, understand yourself, your goals, dreams, desires, and most importantly your motives. I train do many things in my life for many reasons. I train judo, which is a do and a 'way of life', aikido which is a way of life, and I used to train in TKD, which is again, yet another way of life. Each one with it's own motives and competitions for its own time in my life. I also train in BJJ, a sport designed to break limbs and choke people till they are unconscious. At no point do I worry myself about if I'm learning to fight, at no point do I stress myself out over the messages and spirit of the style. Instead I understand my goals, desires, dreams, and motives, and I do my best to meet those. Then I try to have as much fun as possible.

As for learning to fight, this is a martial art, it has martial techniques, there is nothing wrong with learning how to actually use them. I think it should be an important focus of the art. If it was not important, why would the creator of the art left in martial techniques? Train for whatever reasons you want, but understand you are training a martial art, and if what you are learning is not martial, then you can not claim you are training a martial art any longer. However, you can still claim you are living a way of life.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 12-18-2006, 07:19 AM   #37
SeiserL
 
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
Life is a competition. Everything you do is a competition. Why do you want to be a better person? Is striving to be a better person not competition? Why do we have a desire to mate and have children? Is this not a competition to insure our genes live on? Life is competition, every single act, every thing we do is to insure our survival, a competition against everything else that is not us.
IMHO, life is not competition. (Okay, it normally is, but normal isn't natural or healthy.) Competition is usually based on an adversarial win/lose proposition. Win/lose in the long run, is lose/lose.

Therefore, it is only a win/win proposition that provides the basis of cooperation, not competition.

The division "not us" provides difference and distance. Enter and blend, become one, seek similarities, points of contact, and woprk together instead of against each other for the survival of not just the fittest, but all of us. I truly believe that this was a part of O'Sensei message, gift, and wishes.

Fighting is only a last resort measure that provides only an temporary postponement of retaliation.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:06 AM   #38
Mark Freeman
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
I always hear there is no competition in aikido. But I think there is. First there are styles that have competitions. But that is not my point. Life is a competition. Everything you do is a competition. Why do you want to be a better person? Is striving to be a better person not competition? Why do we have a desire to mate and have children? Is this not a competition to insure our genes live on? Life is competition, every single act, every thing we do is to insure our survival, a competition against everything else that is not us.
Wow Don, everything you do is a competition?

living, laughing, working, eating, drinking, loving, talking, shopping, walking, surfing, sleeping, aikido ....all these things I can accomplish without the thought of competing, why would I want to 'win' and create a possibility that I could lose?

Boy the thought of competing in everything I do makes me exhausted just thinking about it

I do however like to play competative games, they have set rules, and a predetermined end point. I have yet to see a rule book that was written for life.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:09 AM   #39
Jorge Garcia
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
I always hear there is no competition in aikido. But I think there is....Embrace competition, understand yourself, your goals, dreams, desires, and most importantly your motives. I train do many things in my life for many reasons. ... At no point do I worry myself about if I'm learning to fight, at no point do I stress myself out over the messages and spirit of the style. Instead I understand my goals, desires, dreams, and motives, and I do my best to meet those....
Your perspective Don, is very self focused. You aren't looking for anything. You seem to come to all the arts knowing what you want. That's you. Some people are looking for something outside of themselves. These are the ones who come to Aikido and rather than tell Aikido what it shall be, they ask Aikido what it is. It is to these that what it was created for matters. To these, the Founders opinion matters, it's history matters and its traditions matter.

The world has plenty of "Cobra Kai Dojos" around with the "Strike hard, strike first, no mercy sir! " attitude. Finding that is no problem for whoever needs it. A person can make Aikido that if they want but then according to Doshu Kisshomaru Ueshiba, they are no longer practicing Aikido. (I refer you to the entire chapter on the Internationalization of Aikido in the book, The Spirit of Aikido, particularly pages 116-117, the third through the seventh paragraphs).

As I have said before, Aikido is a Japanese budo and was created to be that. It has a martial component which is the use of martial art techniques that reflect Aiki and it is the forging of mind and body through the use of these techniques by which we submit the ego to the discipline and practice of the art. Its hoped outcome is ki-mind-body coordination which leads to it's other philosophical implications.

I believe that the by-product self defense training Aikido supplies is enough for the average person and it is certainly more than most people receive in a lifetime so there is no loss there. Those concerned with ultimate effectiveness and fighting should look elsewhere and let the art be what it is.
Best wishes,

Last edited by Jorge Garcia : 12-18-2006 at 08:16 AM.

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:32 AM   #40
DonMagee
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Jorge Garcia wrote:
Your perspective Don, is very self focused. You aren't looking for anything. You seem to come to all the arts knowing what you want. That's you. Some people are looking for something outside of themselves. These are the ones who come to Aikido and rather than tell Aikido what it shall be, they ask Aikido what it is. It is to these that what it was created for matters. To these, the Founders opinion matters, it's history matters and its traditions matter.
Ahh but I do ask aikido what it is, and I listen. But then I look at my own goals, desires, beliefs, etc, and ask "How does this fit into me?", rather that "How can I change myself to meet this image?" Do I change, sure, everything in life causes change.

I still argue that everything in life is competition. Do you want a good job? Well you have to compete. Do you want a good girl? You are going to have to compete. Do you want your children to be successful in life? This is again yet another competition. In fact, attempting to preach the virtues of aikido is a competition with the messages of other ways. The competition may be less obvious to those who wish not to compete. But to compete is to strive to succeed. It is not about wining or losing, those are bi products of competition. To compete is to succeed. This may mean killing your foe on the battlefield, or finding a good job, having kids, living in a good area, electing the officials that meet your viewpoints, getting your message across on a board, doging that co-worker who wants you to work overtime, having the sports car, being in good shape, etc.

Why does a kid want a sports car? It makes him cool. What is cool? It is a competition. Why do you want to be a better person? There has to be a reason, But whatever that reason is, it assumes there are lessor people, thus competition.

Even in aikido there is competition. It might not be obvious, but it is there. Sure, you do not get in a ring and fight. But you have the my ego is less then your ego. Or the I'm too deadly, or the I get to wear a hakama because I have put in more time. There is competition with other arts (BJJ is not for the street, we are a battlefield art). There is most defiantly tons of competition in aikido. It's just not in a ring.

The problem is not the competition, the problem is that people are afraid of facing loss. Loss can be a great powerful thing. Never be afraid to lose.

Last edited by DonMagee : 12-18-2006 at 08:34 AM.

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:43 AM   #41
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Why do you want to be a better person? There has to be a reason, But whatever that reason is, it assumes there are lessor people, thus competition.
Uh, no...it assumes there is a lesser me.

Best,
Ron (looking for the better me...if I ever find it, I'll let ya'll know...)

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-18-2006, 08:58 AM   #42
Jorge Garcia
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
Ahh but I do ask aikido what it is, and I listen. But then I look at my own goals, desires, beliefs, etc, and ask "How does this fit into me?", rather that "How can I change myself to meet this image?" Do I change, sure, everything in life causes change.

I still argue that everything in life is competition. Do you want a good job? Well you have to compete. Do you want a good girl? You are going to have to compete. Do you want your children to be successful in life? This is again yet another competition. In fact, attempting to preach the virtues of aikido is a competition with the messages of other ways. The competition may be less obvious to those who wish not to compete. But to compete is to strive to succeed. It is not about wining or losing, those are bi products of competition. To compete is to succeed. This may mean killing your foe on the battlefield, or finding a good job, having kids, living in a good area, electing the officials that meet your viewpoints, getting your message across on a board, doging that co-worker who wants you to work overtime, having the sports car, being in good shape, etc.

Why does a kid want a sports car? It makes him cool. What is cool? It is a competition. Why do you want to be a better person? There has to be a reason, But whatever that reason is, it assumes there are lessor people, thus competition.

Even in aikido there is competition. It might not be obvious, but it is there. Sure, you do not get in a ring and fight. But you have the my ego is less then your ego. Or the I'm too deadly, or the I get to wear a hakama because I have put in more time. There is competition with other arts (BJJ is not for the street, we are a battlefield art). There is most defiantly tons of competition in aikido. It's just not in a ring.

The problem is not the competition, the problem is that people are afraid of facing loss. Loss can be a great powerful thing. Never be afraid to lose.

I think I can see what you are saying but I still think it is somewhat one dimensional. There is another level at which you can see life but it is on another level because it doesn't view itself as "me against the world" for every task and station. I will admit that looking at this from an higher perspective involves a philosophical perspective but a person has to be seeking that to find it. Reduced to raw survivalism, life can be a competition but that's why great people are those who have dropped that and sacrificed for others instead. They could have lived while others died but they chose to die so others could live. That is another level you didn't address. Think of all those instances we all know of where that has happened. It is in the vein of that sacrificial way of thinking that the baseline philosophy of Aikido lays. It may be an ideal but that's why it is a high calling and not one reached by all nor easily attained. It is a lifetime practice.
Jorge

Last edited by Jorge Garcia : 12-18-2006 at 09:07 AM.

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Old 12-18-2006, 09:25 AM   #43
DonMagee
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
Uh, no...it assumes there is a lesser me.

Best,
Ron (looking for the better me...if I ever find it, I'll let ya'll know...)
Competition with one's self?

- Don
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" - Albert Einstein
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:40 AM   #44
Alec Corper
 
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Re: Fighting

It might be useful if people could clarify some of the terms we use to see if we are on the same page. I read people using the word "spiritual" as if it also means moral, ethical, or character improving. Perhaps part of the problem stems from the very differing ideas within Japanese thought and language from the western ideas that surround religion and spirituality (2 different things) and flavour our culture. The notion of shugyo, which, poorly translated, means purification, calls up some pretty strange ideas within western concepts of religion, but in Japan it can refer to almost any practice which reduces the ego's constant involvement and interference.
Likewise there are reasons why some Samurai ( not so many as the romantic view would suggest) took up the practice of Zen, and why terms like mushin and fudoshin found their way into the vocabulary of the bushi. Certain mind states can assist in both combat and the avoidance of combat, and therefore the development of such states is as beneficial for the civilian as for the soldier. Is the development of these forms of consciousness a spiritual practice or a mental discipline? If we are to have successful dialogues we need to understand each other, our selves, and the context we are in. This is good advice for the warrior as well as the philosopher. I hope that doesn't come across too preachy, but it seems to me that we talk often about the same ideas without reaching much real clarity. Maybe it is the choice between "10,000 cuts mindlessly or 1000 with attention"?

If your temper rises withdraw your hand, if your hand rises withdraw your temper.
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Old 12-18-2006, 09:41 AM   #45
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Fighting

Perhaps. I always liked looking at really good wood carvers or sculpters in clay work. Chip away, chip away, reveal what was already there...

I really don't know the answer. Still working to find the right questions...it may all come down to different methodologies to reach the same place. The particulars for someone else don't really seem to matter...they just add a different perspective to use from time to time.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:22 AM   #46
Jorge Garcia
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Alec Corper wrote:
It might be useful if people could clarify some of the terms we use to see if we are on the same page. I read people using the word "spiritual" as if it also means moral, ethical, or character improving. Perhaps part of the problem stems from the very differing ideas within Japanese thought and language from the western ideas that surround religion and spirituality (2 different things) and flavour our culture. The notion of shugyo, which, poorly translated, means purification, calls up some pretty strange ideas within western concepts of religion, but in Japan it can refer to almost any practice which reduces the ego's constant involvement and interference.
Likewise there are reasons why some Samurai ( not so many as the romantic view would suggest) took up the practice of Zen, and why terms like mushin and fudoshin found their way into the vocabulary of the bushi. Certain mind states can assist in both combat and the avoidance of combat, and therefore the development of such states is as beneficial for the civilian as for the soldier. Is the development of these forms of consciousness a spiritual practice or a mental discipline? If we are to have successful dialogues we need to understand each other, our selves, and the context we are in. This is good advice for the warrior as well as the philosopher. I hope that doesn't come across too preachy, but it seems to me that we talk often about the same ideas without reaching much real clarity. Maybe it is the choice between "10,000 cuts mindlessly or 1000 with attention"?
Alec,
You are actually now into a huge area. You have addressed the issue of distance (transcendence) and nearness (Immanence) in the epistemology of human learning and relations. In a nutshell, it is that we are separate ontological beings and we have different beginning points and we have "learned" and accepted different truths on our separate paths. We come to a forum assuming commonalities when in fact we are diverse and separate and we don't realize how far apart we are. Every sentence we type can create a world of obstacles and the truth is that with so many of us on a thread reading and typing, it is probably mathematically impossible for us to come to a common understanding. Even when we think we understand each other, we don't and even worse, we can't. We can touch common points and accidentally stumble into common points but in every word, if the myriads of people misperceive or understand differently, we are all set of into a whirlwind of unsolvable distance in understanding.

On an aside, this is the reason we have politics and the political system of discourse. It is an adversarial system which assumes and takes advantage of the misunderstanding of the masses and sets the meaning through propaganda to it's own advantage. That's pretty evil, isn't it? It says the opponent believes something and quotes him when that may not be the case at all and thus poisons the water of public opinion.

Back to the point, does that means this forum process is a waste of time? It could mean that. That's why the wise poster will only post once in a while looking for an opportunity to bring clarity to the discussion rather than to argue a point or an agenda.
Best wishes,
Jorge

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 12-18-2006, 11:48 AM   #47
Ron Tisdale
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Re: Fighting

Nice post Jorge...I may have just learned something!

Thanks,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:15 PM   #48
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: Fighting

Good post all (Jorge), Words, semantics, and frames of reference are all very important. We must all remember to seek to understand before being understood. I think this is one of the main points that we learn in aikido, to listen to the energy of others and respond appropriately.

I find competition one of those interesting points. Competition is always it seems, looked at with disdain by members of aikido dojos. In BJJ competition is a big part of the training.

In reality I find not much difference between the two styles functionally except that aikido people tend to wear their "holiness" on their shoulder sometimes, and BJJ people sometimes like to wear the fact that they are somewhat irreverent and tough on theirs.

In reality, in order for people to grow in both arts, they have to train in a cooperative spirit and strive for win/win in practice. If it were really about competition, then we would always try to win and all cost and no concern for your partners, who in true competition, must lose in order for us to win. You wouldn't have many partners or a dojo would be disfunctional.

To me it is all like going to church, just cause you go doesn't make you more spiritual or better than someone who choses to pursue their religous practices in a different manner than going every sunday.

We do have competition in aikido in some since of the definition. We have test and belts and we judge our actions/effectiveness against each other. A form of measurement upon which we use to critique ourselves and our development.

In BJJ we have competition for much the same way. It can be healthy if approached in the right manner.

In some ways I think that BJJ has the right approach to competition. I cannot win a match against someone if I am out of shape and don't practice. Competition serves to keep me honest.

In aikido, it does not work for me...(I am an infantryman you know!). I can slack off, train half assed, hide behind the ritual and hakama, and coast along out of shape and not really growing. I can come in and feel good about myself and delude myself about what I am doing. I may not get promoted, nor will I get the respect of my dojo peers, or instructors...

Conversely in aikido, if my practice becomes all about me...well then I sufffer too.

I think aikido in some ways does require a different sort of individual, one who is willing to enforce discipline within him/herself, and to be honest...you know...internally motivated.

This though, does not make competition a bad thing....just a different model for training.

That said, you can also slack and do the same things in BJJ as well...no difference.

I really think it is more about the semantics of the word competition than anything else.
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Old 12-18-2006, 03:32 PM   #49
statisticool
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Re: Fighting

Quote:
Don Magee wrote:
Train for whatever reasons you want, but understand you are training a martial art, and if what you are learning is not martial, then you can not claim you are training a martial art any longer.
Competition is healthy.

Prostituting and trading martial arts for fame, glory, money, trophies, advertisements, selling violent role models to youth is not.

Unfortunately, the latter is what extreme competition in martial arts tends to lead to. It becomes entertainment and cheap viral videos more than a way of life and self defense to only be used in cases of extreme emergency and last resort.

Last edited by statisticool : 12-18-2006 at 03:39 PM.

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Old 12-18-2006, 10:21 PM   #50
xuzen
 
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Re: Fighting

Speaking about fighting...

My experience with Judo randori has taught and provided feedback to my body how to deal with physical altercation i.e., how to remain calm and compose and formulate winning strategues while my opponent is actively fighting back. I treasure such feedbacks. They are wonderful learning opportunities. Actually very zen like if I may add.

Boon.

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