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Old 10-02-2000, 09:48 PM   #1
cbiazak
Dojo: Sandia Budokan
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I've always been told not to wear my gi while going to and from class (in the car, in the parking lot, etc.). I told this to a kohai, who did not understand. Am I wrong? What should I say?

-CJ Biazak
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Old 10-02-2000, 10:54 PM   #2
AikiBiker
Dojo: Aiki O'Kami Society
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Mainly to keep people from trying to start a fight with you. It is a sad fact that in a lot of places in the USA folks think they can prove their manhood by getting into a fight with somebody in a "Krotty" uniform.

There ia an old Police axiom about street fights: the loser goes to the hospital, the winner goes to jail.

Either way something to avoid.

Later

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Old 10-03-2000, 04:04 PM   #3
Nick
Dojo: Aikido of Greater Atlanta
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indeed, bad heiho. Let's face it, someone in white pajamas and a colorful belt walking around sticks out like a sore thumb... plus, say your tire blows out on the way home. What do you think your nice clean dogi will look like after changing a tire?

To quote a samurai adage: "Show him nothing."

Hope this helps,

-Nick


---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 10-03-2000, 04:25 PM   #4
chrisinbrasil
Dojo: Lenwakan
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Talking

Hi,
VERY TRUE post Joel!! Something seems to click inside people´s heads when they see a martial anything. When I first started MA back in the day, I was given similar advice for the reason Joel stated. Another good reason might be the fact that there´s no reason to wear my gi to and from unless the dojo is mine or directly next door. What would the point be? To show people I´m learning how to defend myself so "don´t mess with me"? Seems I might be a tad insecure. hehe I only did it once...
At your service,
Christopher

At your service,
Christopher Wilson
Hito no tachiba wo kanga eru.
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Old 10-03-2000, 10:32 PM   #5
guest1234
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it would also be nice to keep your gi clean, since it will soon roll around on a mat that your face will eventually land upon...wearing it to the dojo picks up dirt from the street and your car (plus the fries you eat on the way, etc) and then tracks it onto the mat. i know keeping things clean is sometimes looked down upon by some folks, like they won't be real men if their gi is clean and the locker room neat, and yet are often the first to talk about 'budo' and aikido as a MARTIAL art. i guess they are unaware that soldiers then, as now, knew the importance of keeping your uniform and surroundings as clean as possible, to prevent or decrease the chance of infection if wounded, or contracting a disease, which always wounds and kills more than the enemy does. a warrior--then as now--whose uniform/clothing is dirty and in poor repair will undoubtedly have a weapon that also is not in top form, and will lack in other areas of training as well.
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Old 12-09-2000, 06:45 PM   #6
Nick
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reminds me of when I first started budo, long long time ago, when I was 5... ate Wendy's on the way over, and I was 5, so it was rather messy... I was embarassed to go into the dojo that night...

Nick

---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 12-09-2000, 06:46 PM   #7
Nick
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reminds me of when I first started budo, long long time ago, when I was 5... ate Wendy's on the way over, and I was 5 as mentioned, so it was rather messy... I was embarassed to go into the dojo that night...

Nick

---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 12-09-2000, 09:06 PM   #8
crystalwizard
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plus you lose something...something insubstatial at least to me. There's a defining line for me at least when I take street clothes off and put my gi on that lets me close the door on the world and concentrate just on Aikido practice. Mental permission if you will to relax, let go, and deal with every day worries later. I'd hate to lose that by not having to change at the dojo. kinda silly maybe.

____________
Kelly Christiansen

A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world. Everyone you meet is your mirror
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Old 12-10-2000, 04:44 AM   #9
ian
 
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Yep, I feel the same Kelly. When you've had a break in aikido and go back to it, there is nothing so beautiul as feeling that crisp white gi in your hands as you put it on - instant relaxation.

I have found at summer schools, when you stay in your gi between sessions, I'm more relaxed and attentive than I would normally be. Maybe I should be like that all the time?

Ian
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Old 12-10-2000, 09:18 AM   #10
Chuck Clark
 
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Greetings and Safe, Happy Holidays to all,

The keikogi is specialized attire for practicing budo. It should not be worn enroute to the dojo, etc.

I think the more important reasons are that it is a "special training tool" which should be respected and taken care of. (this can be way overdone by some!) You may have a flat tire, or have to stop somewhere on the way, etc. It is very traditional Japanese values to not want to stand out from the crowd and create anything which takes away from the balance. Someone may take it as a "challenge" or "Hey, look at me!" message which is not what budo is about.

I don't think keikogi should ever be used as halloween costumes or worn to costume parties, etc.

These may be traditional values from another society and time, but somehow, it seems "right and appropriate" to me.

Listen to your sensei and their sensei.

Regards,

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 12-10-2000, 09:39 AM   #11
Nick
Dojo: Aikido of Greater Atlanta
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"Some budoka think that wearing their uniform to and from may make them look more 'serious'. But Priests are serious, and they do not wear their vestaments to church. Baseball players are serious, but they do not wear their uniforms to the stadium on game day."
Dave Lowry

Still hoping I don't get sued for always quoting his books,

Nick

---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 12-10-2000, 03:37 PM   #12
minasaek
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re:this is insain...

First of all you can ask him why does he want to wear the gi outside the dojo area...
then i believe its silly just to wnat a gi in the streets because it is irritating and foolish...
Then again we all live in cities, not in Japan at 1000 b.c....
tell this kohai of yours to go to Japan if he wants to do it easilly..


I want to leave my life on my own
I want to lift the unturned stone
I want to walk right into the fire
I want to live out all my desires…!
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Old 12-10-2000, 10:16 PM   #13
Erik
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Look, just tell him/her that Erik think's people who wear their gi's around town look like "moroons", whereas on the mat, they are damn stylish critters, particularly, with a blue hakama swirling around their hairy legs.

If he/she doesn't stop wearing it after this (and buy a blue hakama) I don't know what else to suggest. There is probably no hope for him/her.

PS: I used to know a blind guy who wore his gi to class. We let that one go.

[Edited by Erik on December 11, 2000 at 12:38am]
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Old 12-10-2000, 11:56 PM   #14
Chris Li
 
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Quote:
The keikogi is specialized attire for practicing budo. It should not be worn enroute to the dojo, etc.
It's a sweat-suit, basically, created by Jigoro Kano and Kino Yasuda (?) for the same reasons that sweat-suits were developed in the west, because normal clothes are uncomfortable and not very practical when working out.

Quote:
You may have a flat tire, or have to stop somewhere on the way, etc. It is very traditional Japanese values to not want to stand out from the crowd and create anything which takes away from the balance. Someone may take it as a "challenge" or "Hey, look at me!" message which is not what budo is about.

I don't think keikogi should ever be used as halloween costumes or worn to costume parties, etc.

These may be traditional values from another society and time, but somehow, it seems "right and appropriate" to me.

It's not at all uncommon to see kids in Japan going to or coming from training fully dressed in their keikogi. You don't see adults doing this too often, but you don't see adults wearing their sweats back and forth to the gym, either, they change in the locker room - the same way that most people do in the US.

Best,

Chris
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Old 12-11-2000, 10:01 AM   #15
Nick
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Re: re:this is insain...

Quote:
minasaek wrote:
Then again we all live in cities, not in Japan at 1000 b.c....
If my history lessons serve me correctly, there was no Japan in 1000 b.c... and no dogi till the late 1800's-early 1900's...

Nick

---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 12-11-2000, 01:33 PM   #16
wayback
Dojo: Michigan Tech Univeristy
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Talking U.P. weather

Gi or hakama, neither looks good with big boots on underneath, and the wind blowing this time of year goes right through multiple layers of gi & hakama....

From a "weather" stand point, wearing a gi to class is not very practical, especially if you need to push someone out of a ditch! (which i last had to do while wearing a dress and boots, so i guess i shouldn't say anything!)

besides, then the hem of your hakama gets wet and it looks silly when you roll.

--sharon

Sometimes I feel like I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe......
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Old 12-12-2000, 04:55 PM   #17
Aikidoka2000
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Someone mentioned a few posts back that it is quite common to see people wearing thier Dogi to/from the dojo in Japan. Strange, I have never seen that. It it quite known that to wear a dogi outside the dojo is foolish and as we say "Dasai".
Translation: Not cool. Very dumb. Baka.
Perhaps you saw this in Tokyo. I would not be surprised in the least.
If this was a place other that Tokyo, then I would say that thier mom is quite baka.
Atarimae! You do not wear dogi outside the dojo!
Again I say , Atarimaejyan! :P
-Tomu

-When two blades cross points,
There's no need to withdraw.
The master swordsman
Is like the lotus blooming in the fire.
Such a person has inside of them
A heaven soaring spirit.
- Tozan Ryokan
4th verse on the 5 ranks
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Old 12-12-2000, 05:41 PM   #18
Chris Li
 
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Quote:
Aikidoka2000 wrote:
Someone mentioned a few posts back that it is quite common to see people wearing thier Dogi to/from the dojo in Japan. Strange, I have never seen that. It it quite known that to wear a dogi outside the dojo is foolish and as we say "Dasai".
Translation: Not cool. Very dumb. Baka.
Perhaps you saw this in Tokyo. I would not be surprised in the least.
If this was a place other that Tokyo, then I would say that thier mom is quite baka.
Atarimae! You do not wear dogi outside the dojo!
Again I say , Atarimaejyan! :P
-Tomu
I've seen it in Tokyo, also places outside of Tokyo. I don't know whether it's "dasai" or not, I suppose it depends where you are.

Of course, now that I think about it, the last time I was at Aikikai hombu I saw *Doshu* walking down the street to the dojo in his dogi...

Best,

Chris
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Old 12-13-2000, 11:00 AM   #19
Aikidoka2000
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I suppose the bottom line is,
If you want to be half-ass, then by all means wear your dogi to walk down the
street, at parties, to lounge around in at home, play sports in it, heck, why not
sleep in it? Just because one sees another doing it, even from the Hombu dojo,
does not make it any less wrong, or disrespectful to yourself, others, and your
art. I usually do not exert my opinion on many subjects as this, as i am a strong
proponent of "to each his own". But as it is now, there is too much confusion with
traditional Japanese customs "We call it "Ogasawara" and "Aisatsu". I just wanted
to point that out. Unfortunately even in Japan, there are many people who are
ignorant of these issues as well. Someone has to keep this things going. It may as well be me, even if no one else seem to cares.
-Tomu

-When two blades cross points,
There's no need to withdraw.
The master swordsman
Is like the lotus blooming in the fire.
Such a person has inside of them
A heaven soaring spirit.
- Tozan Ryokan
4th verse on the 5 ranks
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Old 12-13-2000, 03:53 PM   #20
Chris Li
 
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Quote:
Aikidoka2000 wrote:
I suppose the bottom line is,
If you want to be half-ass, then by all means wear your dogi to walk down the
street, at parties, to lounge around in at home, play sports in it, heck, why not
sleep in it? Just because one sees another doing it, even from the Hombu dojo,
does not make it any less wrong, or disrespectful to yourself, others, and your
art. I usually do not exert my opinion on many subjects as this, as i am a strong
proponent of "to each his own". But as it is now, there is too much confusion with
traditional Japanese customs "We call it "Ogasawara" and "Aisatsu". I just wanted
to point that out. Unfortunately even in Japan, there are many people who are
ignorant of these issues as well. Someone has to keep this things going. It may as well be me, even if no one else seem to cares.
-Tomu
Well, I don't wear my sweat suit to parties or on the way to the gym, but that's not because it's sacred or disrespectful, just that it's not practical. I wouldn't wear a bathing suit to play baseball, either, and that's not because I'm afraid of disrespecting a swimming coach.

Is it wrong or disrespectful to wear your dogi outside of class? I don't think that's necessarily true. Basically it's a sweat suit for martial arts training - and that's exactly the purpose that it was created for 100 years ago. There's nothing really sacred about it. Some Japanese feel the way you do, but many don't, even those who aren't "ignorant" of the issues.

So the real issues are why would it be wrong, and who decides? As far as I can tell there is no "standard" of behaviour for this in Japan. As for "tradition", the dogi itself is only around 100 years old, and wasn't even created until well into the modern era by Jigoro Kano. Would you call Judo a "traditional" martial art?

Best,

Chris
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Old 12-13-2000, 05:19 PM   #21
Erik
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All this talk about sweatsuits. My standard daily attire is a pair of shorts and a sweat shirt or t-shirt depending on the weather. Yes, I've gone into work like this although I work at home these days. I had no idea I was such a rebel. Jeez, and I go all over the place in such attire. Who knew all the consternation I was causing. I thought I was just showing off my sexy hairy thighs and calves but now I know better.

If you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go buy a leather jacket and take up smoking because it just seems appropriate somehow after reading more of this thread.
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Old 12-13-2000, 05:51 PM   #22
minasaek
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well...

My friend Nick, your history lessons do not serve you correct..


Best of intentions
Aleksander!

I want to leave my life on my own
I want to lift the unturned stone
I want to walk right into the fire
I want to live out all my desires…!
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Old 12-13-2000, 06:29 PM   #23
Nick
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Sir, might you tell me where?

As far as any of my research has shown:
The "official" birth of the nation of Japan is listed at 600 B.C., and Kano invented the dogi shortly after founding judo.

If my facts are mistaken, please prove me wrong.

Nick

---
Nick Porter
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Old 12-14-2000, 02:28 AM   #24
Creature_of_the_id
 
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HI, just a little story about the time I did actually wear my dogi to the dojo.
my friends and I were running a bit late and so put our dogi on before going so we didnt have to go too and from the locker room and could go straight into the training hall.
So theer we were, 3 of us in dogi in te car driving along when I am comming to a junction and the car didnt want to stop. We slid for quite a while over the junction and into the side of a van.

the van driver got out, looking a little angry, took a look at us and stopped. He then simply asked "are you insured" and when I politely replied yes he got back into his car without any other fuss and without creating a further scene.

So actually I didnt wear my dogi to the dojo that day as I didnt make it to the dojo, my car was too much of a mess.

I'm not gonna get into the whole wrongs and rights of wearing dogi to or from the dojo. Cus I cant really see much of an issue.

Kev
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Old 12-14-2000, 08:22 AM   #25
Aikidoka2000
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Sigh...Kids today.
Chris, every proper martial artist in Japan knows not to wear dogi outside of class.
try not to analize it to much. Just accept it. Are there exceptions? Absolutely. Mostly with kids and older people. Is it still wrong? I feel it is.
Have you really deeply thought about why most folks feel it is wrong?
Anyway, enough ranting.
-Tomu

-When two blades cross points,
There's no need to withdraw.
The master swordsman
Is like the lotus blooming in the fire.
Such a person has inside of them
A heaven soaring spirit.
- Tozan Ryokan
4th verse on the 5 ranks
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