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Old 11-23-2002, 09:00 AM   #1
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
My fathers dead, and so is Jesus.

When I started the thread of Jesus is dead, it was a metaphor for the reality of not getting to know my father as a human being. Just as I was getting to know him for a human being, his health failed and he died shortly after sustaining injurys from a simple fall.

In the same sense that Jesus went out into the world, left his family, and went his own way, so too, my father was the black sheep. The best description of the old fellow was my sister's description of him being the human sperm bank making deposits everywhere. He was more like an old B movie, than a real down to earth person you would think your father should be.

So in this sense, I associate the blanket of blind faith people wrap around themselves, with the anger I have held against my father until the last year of his life. There were not enough words, and there is not always enough time to do what must be done.

I question the spiritual strength of blindly accepting everything at face value, and that is the lesson of my father who would have named me "Sue" if the Jonny Cash song, 'a boy named sue'. had come out before I was born.

So .... in relation to spiritual understanding of who and what you are, and what you expect out of life, Aikido, and where you are going....

What is it that affected you to be the way you are in your life, and your what drives you to learn from Aikido as a spiritual journey?

Big question .....

Consider the stimuli of your life, your family, and lessons / problems that have brought you to Aikido?

When there are no more words from those who have turned to dust, where does the spiritual learning come from?

Sorry about the long post, but my father never fixed problems, he seemed to create them and leave, hence the many questions.
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Old 11-23-2002, 09:29 AM   #2
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
When there are no more words from those who have turned to dust, where does the spiritual learning come from?
Master the Outward by Means of the Inward

When the mind neither sorrows nor delights, that is the supreme attainment of virtue. To succeed without changing is supreme attainment of calm. To be unburdened by habitual desires is supreme attainment of emptiness. To have no likes and dislikes is supreme attainment of equanimity. Not getting mixed up with things is supreme attainment of purity.

Those who can accomplish these five things reach spiritual illumination. Those who reach spiritual illumination are those who attain the inward.

Therefore when you master the outward by means of the inward, all affairs are unspoiled.

If you can attain this within, then you can develop it outwardly.

When you attain it within, your internal organs are peaceful and your thoughts are calm; your muscles are strong, your eyes and ears are alert and clear. You have accurate perceptions and understanding, you are firm and strong without snapping.

In a small domain you are not careless. Your soul is not excited, your spirit is not disturbed. Serene and aloof, you are the toughest in the world. Sensitive and responsive, when pressed you can move, infinitely calm and inscrutable.

Huai Nantzu
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Old 11-23-2002, 10:34 AM   #3
Aiki Teacher
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland , TX
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 62

Sorry about your father. The truth is we are all influenced by how we are raised. Very often our impressions of our father fashion the way we view our heavenly father. The sad thing is that our earthly father is not a good representation of who God is.

A good book that helped me when I came back from Africa was a book by Wright called the Blessing. The author helps you see how to deal with the fact of having an overbearing father you have never recieved the blessing from to even having a father who is absent. Try it, it is a really helpful book.

Bruce, healing can come through knowing Jesus. Just as you were abandoned by your father, Jesus had to face being seperated from his father when he was on the cross because he took our sins upon him self that we might be offered the oportunity to have salvation through him. If you read one of the gospels Jesus cried out "My God, why have you forsaken me", God did not leave him in the grave though, regardless of how you believe, most historian agree that the tomb was empty. If Jesus is who he says he is then that is all the reason in the world to follow him.

Yes, My trust in Jesus is baised on faith. But then isn't everything in our world. The previous reply baises his life on the fact that perfection can com by emptying himself. The only problem is that he is not perfect. How can something that is imperfect make something that is perfect. Trying to achieve perfection on our own is impossible. Only one who is perfect can make something that is perfect. Jesus came to the earth and became like a man but did not sin. He was the perfect man sent to die for the imperfect. God through Jesus can give us the perfection, family, mother, and father we need, but only when we become his child through faith in Christ.

How God makes these changes in us is a mystery, but it is God's mystery, how he takes something that is imperfect and makes it perfect. Yes it is baised on faith, I agree, but everything in our world is baised on faith. It just so happens, there is a lot of good witness to the truth of who Jesus was.

Try reading through the Gospel of John. It was written to people who had not seen Jesus, but who wanted to know that there faith was still valid. John records Jesus as saying, " Blessed are you because you have seen and believe, but more blessed are those who belive and have not seen." this was written by the Only apostle of jesus who did not die a martyred death. All of the other apostles of Jesus died cruel deaths because of there beliefs in Jesus.

At least give the Gospel of John a read. YOu might see a side of Jesus you have never experenced in a church setting.
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Old 11-23-2002, 10:34 AM   #4
Dojo: Minh Sensei
Location: Allentown, PA
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 107
Thanks for those posts Bruce and Mike.

I've been told by a very reliable source, my sensei, that as far as personal development goes, the road is quite "simple." First, simply find who you are in this world. This is of course no easy task. Secondly, accept yourself, your strengths and limitations. This perhaps is even more difficult. Lastly, spend the rest of your life trying to improve yourself: a goal never to be accomplished.

I'm still on the first step, while working on the second and third all the while. Thankfully, I have Aikido in my life as a scaffolding. Ueshiba's insights form a basis of clarity that cannot be contended. There are no loopholes should they be followed completely. I can say this because those insights aren't related to opinion, they are in fact universal.

"Aikido embraces all that is good and holy in every land."

Who can argue with that?

This the basis from which I can build my existence. For someone who is skeptical, perhaps to his detriment, I find Aikido uniquely accessible and complete. Accessible due to its simplicity. Complete due to its simple, clear statements that make no room for contention.


Heaven is right where you are standing, and that is exactly the place to train-
M. Ueshiba
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Old 11-23-2002, 01:36 PM   #5
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,886

My deepest condolences and compassion for all the losses you suffer.

Until again,


Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 12-02-2002, 06:14 AM   #6
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Thank you all for your responses.

Thank you, Mike Lee for a response that brought home all the things I have been trying to say, in a less articulate way, in all my posts.

Of course, in understanding the words of Huai Nantzu you must first have tried to live these ways, search for the answers, and found somekind of simular answers.

I believe that these words best describe where I have been, what life I live, and where I am going.

That is one of the great lessons of having interaction of posts on the Aikiweb ... you never know when inspiration will come to you, and sometimes anothers words describe exactly what you have been trying to say.
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Old 12-02-2002, 06:36 AM   #7
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Oh, no offense Johnny Couch, but there is more to the meaning of life than wrapping yourself in an all suffocating blanket of Jesus, and The Bible.

These are lessons, not the ticket to gain an entrance into some life beyond life, heaven. Everything written in books in seen by the eyes of men, who may or may not, reflect their own personal opinions. Every single miracle of the bible is performed in todays world in some form, or shadow form .... so if this is so, how come we wrap ourselves in the blanket of the past and not see the lessons of the present?

Maintain the blanket of security until you learn enough to move on into the real world where you realize every human being is the child of God and we all have the potential to do the deeds and words of every prophet, including Jesus.

This is also the lesson of Aikido. We train to have the potential ability to equal or surpass O'Sensei, but few of us ever will because our minds are stuck upon keeping the blanket around us to keep our little world intact.

Every good sensei I have trained under, or with, has without exception encouraged students to experience other teachers, other martial arts so they could grow within the pursuit of their martial arts.

This should apply to all things in life, including religion.

Many people insist that their practice, of either martial arts or religion, is the only way to find either enlightenment or the answers they seek .... sorry .... life is a larger journey than that.

So, as much as I am right for what I do, I may be wrong for your journey. Remember, right or wrong, things happen for a reason, and this may be something you reflect back upon. Searching should not weaken a faith, but strengthen it. If you become closed minded to what the universe tries to teach you, then you become closed minded to the God you worship, as he/she/ it is derived from human beings living/thinking/ creating a being that be avatar to intercede for their basis of emotional fears.

Sorry about the rant.

It comes from being a member of the Christian Church, and searching for more beyond the rhetoric of present church system. Everyday is a holy day, and every moment of your life should be lived as if you were doing the right thing for the right reason.

My opinion, no offense intended ... it just that it tends to offend me when I am told all the answers are in 'The Bible' when the 'The Bible' is merely a parody of life.
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Old 12-12-2002, 07:15 PM   #8
Williamross77's Avatar
Dojo: aikido of shreveport
Location: Shreveport, Lousiana
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 146
MR. COUCH, just a note, in my tradition of Christianity that "My God My God" reference is not one of desperation but the utterance of Psalm 22 in which the victim is vindicated my his God, not really Christ in doubt, but more of an action of Faith. Just my two cents, Mr. Baker, please don't scold me for being chritian, and in that defence please read my post on the thread" jesus ia dead.."#1

In aiki

in Aiki
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Old 12-14-2002, 05:12 PM   #9
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
You know, I don't take offense for people who try to answer honestly ... with a tad of humor thrown in.

What reallys frosts my beard is those who try to absolutely prove their point by quoting the bible, or verses thereof.

Lot of wisdom in that book, but then again, it is about the most irreverent collection of incest, murder, and other unspeakable acts ever assembled and called 'Holy.' That is a fact, not a belief, or even a postulation of thought upon a cursory examination, and yet we swear upon that book to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

No wonders lawyers only want you to answer with tell the answers I want you tell, tell only enough truth to make my case, and the truth is only within the parameters of what works for my client.

Let's not be like that, eh?

Let's look at the whole truth and examine how the entire puzzle of not only aikido fits into our lives, our religions, our beliefs in what type of person we should be, and what type of lives we should lead.

If you really want to scold me, read my other post in spiritual about how the dog and I sent three helpless lambs of the Mormon chuch off into the cold world with my theory of God is the Universe, how limited their thinking was about who and what god is, and they were not thinking for themselves but being bamboozled by testifying about their spiritual revelation, when they were not applying it to their world on their own terms, using thoughts postulated by their own minds?

Oh, well.

If Jesus ain't dead, how come he hasn't come back to kick over the television cameras of those bible thumping television ministrys? Let alone to set me straight to what he was trying to do beyond his limited lifespan of years?

They must have pretty good security in those TV studios, eh?

I still think he went to India, applied what he found in visiting the holy men there, and came back to Israel to try and teach what he had learned. I could be wrong about that, but then again, there are too many simularitys in general religious teachings to ignore the possibilites.

Same with Aikido.

Too many things found in Aikido come from so many places to ignore them.

We may be introduce to something by a teacher, but we should go out into the world to find more information, more answers, so we don't get caught in the trap of pointing to one almighty source that proves everything.

The universe seems to hold a lot of variations, doesn't it?

Last edited by Bruce Baker : 12-14-2002 at 05:21 PM.
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