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Old 09-26-2000, 07:01 AM   #1
orenb
Dojo: Hei sai (Seidokan)
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 13
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Hi all,
i was wondering, if someone is approaching you with the intention of causing you harm, without being commited to a specific atteck. how would you stop him from penatrating your maai before it's too late to do anything?

thanx

Oren
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Old 09-26-2000, 07:44 AM   #2
Paul
Location: Edinburgh
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 46
Scotland
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Fence

Geoff Thompson writes very good things on this very thing, his "system" which has nothing to do with aikido is based on de-escalation of a situation one way to do this is to stay safe while you do this to keep your ma ai he uses posturing etc assentially going into hamni while keeping your hand out but with the back of your hand to the person so not to infuriate. the book is called the Fence you might want to look at it.

Regards Paul

Regards Paul Finn
Edinburgh
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Old 09-27-2000, 01:30 AM   #3
Kirk
"Kirk"
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Dojo: West Coast Aikido
Location: Perth (West Australia)
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If someone was coming at me and I was certain they intended me harm, although they had not commited to a specific attack, I would have no hesitation in being the first one in with an atemi to put them off balance and then use a technique.



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Old 09-27-2000, 03:24 PM   #4
chrisinbrasil
Dojo: Lenwakan
Location: Sao Paulo, Brasil
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Thumbs down

I have to agree with Kirk.
At your service,
Christopher

At your service,
Christopher Wilson
Hito no tachiba wo kanga eru.
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Old 09-28-2000, 02:08 AM   #5
orenb
Dojo: Hei sai (Seidokan)
Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 13
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Hey guys,
thanx for your replies,
however, what kind of atemi would you prefer to use, and how strong would it be? enough to make the agressor drop to the ground or lose conciensness maybe?

thanx

Oren
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Old 09-28-2000, 02:59 AM   #6
JJF
 
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Dojo: Vestfyn Aikikai Denmark
Location: Vissenbjerg
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Hi Orenb

What I'm trying to learn from my Sensei is to use the Atemi as a tremendous power present all the time during a technique but never used to hit the partner. I don't know if it could work in a real life situation, but if it could then I would concider it a true application of Aikido. During practice with my Sensei it seems to work all right. He can make very subtle changes in his posture and attitude that suddenly makes a world of difference to me as Uke and completely removes my commitment to hit him.

Maybe I'm not making a lot of sense here - just babbeling. To put it another way: I think Atemi should be very strong but the power should be redirected into movement and only be used to strike the opponent when absolutely nothing else is possible.

Hope you can use my answer

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 09-28-2000, 10:16 AM   #7
akiy
 
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Quote:
JJF wrote:
What I'm trying to learn from my Sensei is to use the Atemi as a tremendous power present all the time during a technique but never used to hit the partner. I don't know if it could work in a real life situation, but if it could then I would concider it a true application of Aikido.
Does it work against total beginners?

-- Jun

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Old 09-28-2000, 12:48 PM   #8
BC
Location: Chicago, IL
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Good point Jun. I'm more of the opinion that the atemi in such a situation needs to be committed and a real threat to the attacker, because otherwise I don't think you're going to get your attacker to respond the way you want.

Regarding the level of force or strength of the atemi, I think it would depend on the specific facts and circumstances, such as: the size of the attacker and defender, physical surroundings (indoor/outdoor, large/small area), speed of the attacker, skill level of the defender, and awareness/preparedness of the defender, among other things. I remember I read a post by Rocky Izumi Sensei, who quoted Akira Tohei Sensei, saying:

"On the mats, or outside, one should try and achieve harmony. In the dojo, we hope there are no crazies so we should not act crazy. Outside is another matter. There are many crazies out there and we should harmonize with them also. In the street, use street technique. If the person is a little crazy, you should also be a little crazy."

-from Kjartan Clausen's http://www.aikidofaq.com
http://www.aikidofaq.com/stories/real_life.html

So, does that then qualify as "crazy love?"

-BC
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Old 09-28-2000, 05:18 PM   #9
Cas Long
Location: England
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Talking Hi Jun....

Who mentioned anything about Beginners?

Peace,
Cas

"Love Is A Verb"
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Old 09-28-2000, 09:31 PM   #10
akiy
 
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Re: Hi Jun....

Quote:
Cas Long wrote:
Who mentioned anything about Beginners?
Oh. Um... I just did.

One of the measures in my training if my stuff "works" or not (whatever that really means, huh?) is if it's effective when dealing with beginners who aren't as conditioned as the rest of us aikido practitioners to react in certain ways.

My own experience (however meager it is) has been that subtle movements an dsuch do not work very well with beginners so I was just curious if what Jorgen was talking about worked when dealing with complete beginners.

-- Jun

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Old 09-29-2000, 01:21 AM   #11
JJF
 
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Quote:
akiy wrote:
Does it work against total beginners?

-- Jun
Hi Jun!

Good question. I guess I don't qualify as a total beginner myself though I only have about one and a half year of practice spread out over the past 5 years. However - I have allways had the feeling that when I grab my instructors wrist I'm not holding on to him but to some kind of aura around his arm, and I have also very often been aware that I was about to get a hand in my face, which then in the last second turned into a twist in a new direction. When I try to think back, I seem to remeber this as something that I felt from the very beginning. Maybe because it really works on beginners, maybe because I have previous martial arts experience (Kendo and Karate) or maybe just because I remeber wrong

Sometimes when i practice with newbees in our dojo and I can't seem to get a technique right, my instructor shows me how it works and as far as I can se, the atemi's works even on the beginners, but then again I'm not really qualified to judge that.

What I do know is, that both Nishio Sensei and my instructor conciders atemi very important as a 'could-have-been-but-wasn't-executed-stroke'.

Anyway - if you want to see for yourself, then I'm certain that you are welcome in our dojo

Hope this can qualify as some sort of an answer.

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
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Old 09-29-2000, 06:15 AM   #12
akiy
 
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Quote:
JJF wrote:
Anyway - if you want to see for yourself, then I'm certain that you are welcome in our dojo [/b]
Thanks! I hope to be able to some day. It's always best to feel someone than talking about them, huh?

Otherwise, thanks for the response.

-- Jun, heading out the door in a few minutes to go up to Missoula for a weekend seminar

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