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Old 11-04-2002, 12:56 PM   #1
Judd
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 49
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Beginner question

I have read about dojo's not emphasizing "realistic attacks", etc. and after my first class (which was sa-weet !)
I noticed that the "attacks" from other students were very gentle. I realize that it was my first class, and was simply wondering if this is because I'm a beginner (no one wants to hurt me) or because everyone else is also beginners (lack of confidence, experience, etc). I was actually trying to give bearhugs and pull people down while practicing techniques (not full force, but I was trying to create some realistic momentum and force). Was that wrong? Should I be gentle in the beginning, or rather, match my fellow students? Does everything get "more serious/real" as time progresses, or is it a individual development thing? No one really said how hard to do things, so I'm just wondering.

Thanks!
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Old 11-04-2002, 01:02 PM   #2
Hogan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 106
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I am a believer in that you really can't practice "realistic" techniques at the beginning because you really have to have some sort of understanding of the basic movements first. Cooperation....

As to your last 2 questions, I believe YES to both.
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Old 11-04-2002, 01:12 PM   #3
Alphete
 
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Dojo: Shuren Dojo
Location: Buenos Aires
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Re: Beginner question

Quote:
Judd Mercer (Judd) wrote:
I noticed that the "attacks" from other students were very gentle. I realize that it was my first class, and was simply wondering if this is because I'm a beginner
Hi Judd!

I'm also a begginer too. I've been attending clases for two months and on my first class that happened to mee also. The first students I practiced with were very kind and guided me from the begining. Since I'm the newbie, whenever we start practicing a technique, I'm the one that plays uke at first.

Since we sit in the dojo in order from experience, the first technique, you always end up with somebody with more rank.
Quote:
(no one wants to hurt me) or because everyone else is also beginners (lack of confidence, experience, etc). I was actually trying to give bearhugs and pull people down while practicing techniques (not full force, but I was trying to create some realistic momentum and force). Was that wrong?
At least in my clases, we start with the "standard" attacks ( I know there's no standard attack in real life...) katate dori, shomen uchi, shokomen uchi...whenever the technique that's beeing shown is used for that kind of attacks. I try to give the same attacks, since if you give that kind of realistic attack (bear hug, tackle...or anything) I belive that nage:

1) Should apply a different technique that the one you're practicing at that time

2) If it's a newbie as you he wouldn't know how to react...
Quote:
Should I be gentle in the beginning, or rather, match my fellow students? Does everything get "more serious/real" as time progresses, or is it a individual development thing? No one really said how hard to do things, so I'm just wondering.

Thanks!
As I started changing partners during practice I found some of them were gentle, kind (due to my begginer condition) but yet they were COMMITED, and applied certain strenght to their wrist grabs or shomen uchi attacks...just to show the intention.

Maybe the other members of the forum can give you more insightful reply...

Take this one from a begginer as you are.

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Old 11-04-2002, 01:19 PM   #4
Judd
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
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I was in a small class with only a few people who were also beginners, so I think everyone there felt a little unsure. But that's ok. We all have to start somewhere!
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Old 11-04-2002, 02:33 PM   #5
Gopher Boy
Dojo: Takemusu Aiki Sydney City Dojo
Location: Australia
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Hi Judd,

Having done Aikido for a few months, I am starting to get confident in my techniques and must say that the most annoying thing is people who do not hold your wrist properly. Don't get me wrong - you don't need to try and squeeze someone's arm off but enough pressure so that you offer some realistic resistance.

No real danger of hurting anybody at least so no reason not to give a little pressure.

p.

p.s. - oh, and I still can't bring myself to attack someone genuinely - just a big sissy I guess!
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Old 11-04-2002, 02:58 PM   #6
Bronson
 
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Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
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My general rule of thumb is to tell people to not attack with more energy than there willing to take a fall from. If you attack fast and hard there's a better chance of hitting the floor fast and hard. If your ukemi isn't up to it I'd say stick with the slower attacks.

Quote:
some of them were gentle, kind (due to my begginer condition) but yet they were COMMITED
Absolutely! A commited attack doesn't need to be fast. It has to have intent and direction. I tend to have beginners work on finding the blend. I'll give an attack where the direction of intent is pretty easy to find. If they blend with with that then I move. If they stop moving I stop moving. As long as the lead is maintained we continue until we, hopefully, have something resembling a technique. As ukes skill increases I try to make finding and keeping that blend and lead more difficult, eventually getting to the point of actively trying to reverse the technique.

To start I'd say pretty much go with it. You just started learning the alphabet, don't try to write any novels yet

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 11-04-2002, 03:01 PM   #7
Judd
Dojo: Seattle Ki Society
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I wonder if it's a combination problem. For instance, if someone is afraid of getting hit or hurt, they, in turn, are more reserved when attaking. But someone who has been hit and is not afraid may not be as skittish. I've taken a bit of boxing and gymnastics, along with dancing, so I'm not really scared of being hit or thrown (though maybe I should be ), so perhaps that's why I was a little "eager" in the class, whereas some people may have never had any such experiences.

In either case, I'm going to try to take it at the same pace as eveyone else. Gentle, but firm and "Commited", as Alphete so eloquently put it.
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Old 11-04-2002, 04:37 PM   #8
SeiserL
 
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Dojo: Roswell Budokan, Kyushinkan Dojo, Aikido World Alliance
Location: Roswell, GA USA
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IMHO, usually beginners attack and defend with a gentler touch shall we say. As you advance, both the attack and the defense picks up more speed and power. Be patient and enjoy yourself.

Until again,

Lynn

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 11-04-2002, 10:02 PM   #9
sanosuke
Dojo: Seigi Dojo
Location: Jakarta
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 247
Indonesia
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usually in the beginning we use attacks with reasonable speed, its not too fast and not too slow but gentle enough for us to feel the force and apply the technique, and its increasing as you gain more experience. The reason of some dojo using 'slow' attacks however, is that to allow the students to 'feel' the attack and move accordingly. If the attack is too fast the students might not learn well. So don't worry, practice diligently and properly, you'll be there.
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Old 11-04-2002, 10:23 PM   #10
Pretoriano
 
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Dojo: Aikido Santa Fe
Location: Aragua Venezuela
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attack?

Dont lie to the guy!

Ten years will pass and attacks will be limited, little faster, no strenght, always in a conmited attitude where everybody falls after attacking. But you will get stronger and centered,dealing with strenght with no resistance, perfect combat distance (maai), they will always tell you need half a century to be real good, But, you will have chance to develop refined martials senses, the best of Aikido you will see is its Beatiful Armony Concept its Universal Filosofy, its active seeking for Peace Resolution, I warn you can fall in love to this art.

Praetorian
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