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Old 11-04-2002, 10:50 AM   #1
ian
 
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Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
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front choke?

Anyone no the best way to get out of a front choke. It is a suprisingly difficult one to get out of, especially if you have been taken unawares.

By front choke I mean; facing each other, uke wraps arm over back of nages neck and pulls them forward towards ukes chest, then grasps his own hand (or gi), with nages head pointing behind him (bent over forward).

Considering, this is a very dangerous attack (potential neck break) - what would you suggest?

Ian

Last edited by ian : 11-04-2002 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 11-04-2002, 11:21 AM   #2
paw
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Ian,

I think what you've describe is often called a guillotine choke in bjj. It's relatively easy to defend.

Uke can drape a free arm over nage. If nage lifts up, uke jumps or climbs onto nage (no increased pressure).

Any bjj school can show you the defense and subsequent escapes.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 11-04-2002, 01:05 PM   #3
Hogan
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Hit him (nage) in the NUTS.
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Old 11-05-2002, 03:44 AM   #4
ian
 
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Cheers Paul, I presume when you say, to drape a free arm over nage it is to grab their neck? The jumping up bit was the only thing I could think of (I'm thinking wrapping the legs around the throat) - just seems a bit unpredictable and could result in a body slam if not careful - considering the technique though, better than getting your neck snapped.

The attack to the testicles seems sensible - but it can be difficult in practise (if the person holding you knows what they're doing), and you have very little time before you are killed. Testicles are definately a good option if presented though!

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 11-05-2002, 04:38 AM   #5
paw
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Ian,

A bodyslam is possible (that is to say, uke can reach down secure a grip between nage's legs and then slam nage. The danger is really to nage...if nage keeps the choke they sacrifice some of the ability to breakfall. In one of the UFCs, Frank Shamrock slams Igor Zinoviev --- who has a guillotine on Shamrock --- and knocks him out.)

I'm afraid I'm not able to describe technique by written word well. Face to face on the mat we could cover this sort of thing in minutes (stupid ocean). You're best bet is to drop in on a bjj school (a judo club may know as well, but I think bending the spine --- which a good guillotine choke should do --- is not allowed in judo shiai).

Regards,

Paul
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Old 11-05-2002, 06:50 AM   #6
L. Camejo
 
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I think any Aikido response to this should be to avoid getting to the point where the choke is already set and being applied.

The body slam option is a great one, I've seen that shown in commando training manuals even.

Due to the close bond between our Aikido and Judo we tend to respond to any sort of choke/strangle attack by nailing our chin to our chest (to protect the neck by using the chin and jaw line) and by tai sabaki (body movement) to break the attacker's balance.

A skilled bjj/judo player would be somewhat resistant or expecting a balance break so my next movement would be to apply atemi to the nuts (ridge of hand, up and in @ 45 degrees) with the inside hand while using the other hand to push the attacker's face/head up and over (sokumen irimi nage style). Depending on how effective my initial atemi was, I may have to use something like pressing the point of the thumb into the angle of the aggressor's cheekbone while pushing over.

Alternatively to the ridge hand to the nuts, grasping a handfull of skin on the inner thigh and twisting also causes uke to react by raising his leg, hence floating his weight upward and assisting the subsequent push of the face/head.

After pushing the head, move in with a deep irimi (tsugi ashi) and keep the back straight so uke does not bring you into the ground with him.

Chances are uke will let go of your neck by this time to avoid splattering his own brains on the ground.

Will try to give pictures to describe this, I've yet to see this variation of gyaku gamae ate (sokumen irimi nage for trad. aikido folks) countered when done properly.

The best thing though, is to avoid getting trapped from the outset. Be aware.

L.C.

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 11-05-2002, 07:17 AM   #7
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
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Shot to the ribs.

Push a finger into the depression at the base of the neck, in and down.

Judo slam to ground.

Shomenuchi to neck.

Poke the eyes.

Sweep to the knees.

Drop your body weight and do something Aiki?

A whole host of pressure points that numb, or incapacitate.

I could go on for twenty or thiry more techniques ....

It really depends on how the choke is being applied and the openings available.
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