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Old 10-15-2002, 06:22 AM   #1
Genex
 
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Dojo: Warrington Seishin Kai
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Ha, ha thisaway ha, ha thataway!

Throws, there are many of them
Shiho nage - Four direction
Irimi nage - Entering (20 yr technique)
Kokyo nage - Breath throw
Tenchi nage - Heaven and earth throw
Koshi nage - Hip Throw
Kaiten nage - Rotary
Kotegaeshi - Wrist turn out
and more then this.
English provided for the japanese impared...
Anyhoo my point because there is one here somewhere, Have you done all of these throws? which ones were harder then others and what methodology did you use to work through your problems? did you get tips from sensei, or did you see something in another student and tried that? you see many of us seem to have problems with many of the techniques in aikido this is just a learning process obviously but what do you remember about them and their application, have you ever used one for real?
more recently i was practicing my 20 year technique and i found a way in which it just clicked together, i have mentioned it before about cutting in to uke's shoulder and hugging them really close to my armpit (bonus if i'm smelly) and then bring my arm over in kind of an arc. i did this last class and really floored my Uke his feet kept going and his head was already on the floor!
Hehe, then theres Tenchi nage ahh the joys of throwing someone accross the dojo...
Anyhoo lemme know what you guys do or have done to figure out your techniques.
pete

like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick. - The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the Pan-galactic Gargleblaster!
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Old 10-15-2002, 08:35 AM   #2
Creature_of_the_id
 
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argh! now you have me singing the wizbit theme in my head! I cant get it out!

:P

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Old 10-15-2002, 09:13 AM   #3
aikido_fudoshin
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Since I train in Yoshinkan and dont know much about how other styles train, I find your question a bit strange. This is partly because we have very strict form and set ways of performing a technique. We go step by step through each movement and each movement has a particular way in which it is performed (there is some leniance towards body types though). For example, when performing irimi nage we keep our throwing hand in kamae, enter across the collar bone, and as we move through we cut down and the hand turns thumb down. Its a very specific way of doing it. We also use (for the most part) six basic movements: Hiriki no yosei ichi and ni, tai no henko ichi and ni, shumatsu dosa ichi and ni. These basic movements are applied directly to nearly every movement that is performed in every one of our techniques. They are extremely helpful in learning the proper way to move.
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Old 10-15-2002, 09:31 AM   #4
nikonl
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Ai symbol

I really have a problem with Irimi Nage. Everytime i do it, it always has new problems coming out...one of my worst techniques i might say. Is that why they call it 20 years technique? I shall wait another 17 years and see how it goes...heh
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Old 10-15-2002, 02:05 PM   #5
Chuck.Gordon
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Re: Ha, ha thisaway ha, ha thataway!

Quote:
Peter Lovatt (Genex) wrote:
Irimi nage - Entering (20 yr technique)
Iri (enter)

Mi (body)

Nage (throw, literally, as in tossing a stone)
Quote:
Kokyo nage - Breath throw
Kokyu is not breath, it might be 'body-fitting', it might be 'timing', it might be 'breath-power' ... nowhere in there, BTW, is 20 years mentioned.
Quote:
Kotegaeshi - Wrist turn out
Kote = gauntlet or that portion of the arm between the knuckles and the mid-forearm

Gaeshi = to return

Nothing at all about wrist twisting.
Quote:
English provided for the japanese impared...
Thanks.
Quote:
Have you done all of these throws? which ones were harder then others and what methodology did you use to work through your problems?
Yes, and none of them. All very simple. Basic applications of how the body works and how it moves (or doesn't). Complicated? Let's talk about tai otoshi ...
Quote:
have you ever used one for real?
Yes.
Quote:
more recently i was practicing my 20 year

technique
You been doing it for 20 years?

Just train. Don't worry about what other people (yes even some of th elder gods of western aikido) call 'em.

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Old 10-16-2002, 04:22 AM   #6
Genex
 
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chuck, where did i say that kokyo nage was the 20 yr? thats irimi nage and yes i know the literal translations but as you have clearly shown mid-forearm return doesnt really connect with wrist turnout does it?

The idea was so that ppl could understand what i'm talking about i didnt say this was a translation.

Oh and its nice to see someone out there had no problems whatsoever doing any of the techniques i've talked about, what a learning curve you have lemme guess blackbelt in 1 year?

anyhoo i'm asking ppl about their difficulties and what they find helps work them through their techniques that way ppl can read this and get some idea's on how to improve upon the technique so a simple "yes" doesnt help really does it...Btw i know tai otoshi is complicated hence why it isnt here.

pete

like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick. - The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the Pan-galactic Gargleblaster!
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Old 10-16-2002, 08:48 AM   #7
akiy
 
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Quote:
Peter Lovatt (Genex) wrote:
yes i know the literal translations but as you have clearly shown mid-forearm return doesnt really connect with wrist turnout does it?
Personally, I've found that turning the wrist "out" in kotegaeshi doesn't work very well as it usually allows a nice cross-punch from the other hand. I usually "return" the hand back into the person's center. This may look like turning the wrist "out" especially when done with a tenkan, though, but it's not.

And, in my experience, kotegaeshi can be done without involvement of the wrist and basically just through forearm manipulation.

-- Jun

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Old 10-16-2002, 11:21 AM   #8
Janet Rosen
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[quote="Jun Akiyama (akiy)"

And, in my experience, kotegaeshi can be done without involvement of the wrist and basically just through forearm manipulation.

-- Jun[/QUOTE]Indeed. When I have an uke with a taped wrist, I wil often use the forearm close to the elbow, attach it to my center, and pivot.
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